Saturday, June 26, 2010

Why come out unless you are under 40 or hot?

Please be sure to read the comments. They're the best part.


I'm 43 and gay. I'm finally ready to come out.

After I do all the ugly stuff of telling my wife, kids, family and friends, I'll finally get to the good stuff: finding a guy to spend the rest of my life with.

I've done the hook-ups, the fuck buddies and the friends with benefits. There's nothing wrong with any of those arrangements but I'm ready to move on to a full-time committed relationship.

How do I find the right guy?

First, I need to network with gay friends. Hopefully they can provide some moral support. And maybe they have a few decent friends I could date.

Second, I have to decide how to find the right kind of guys on-line. Manhunt? Adam4Adam? Craigslist? Hmmm. Maybe not to start. I'll try Compatible Partners and first.

Third, any activity groups I can join? Nothing obvious comes up in an Internet search. I need to ask around.


6 months later...

After six months of dating men, I have learned three things:

1. There are two kinds of guys who want to date a 44 year old: SOME guys who are 44 or older; and, boys who are looking for a sugar daddy. Every one else only wants to date someone younger than they are. Even the 43 year olds.

2. Men are all about looks. Let's be honest: most married guys who are over 40 are overweight. Or balding. Or unattractive. Or all of the above. Thankfully I'm not overweight and although my hair is slowly thinning, many follicles are putting up a good fight; I could look worse. So my looks are way above the average 44 year old married guy. But my gay years equivalent is 80. Average looks just aren't good enough to attract the guys I like. To do that, I need to be hot.

3. Men are assholes. At least all the gay guys that are still single. One date with 80% of them and I know exactly why they're all single! The rest? Flakes, liars and commitment phoebes. The very few that remain? So overwhelmed with their baggage that they can't handle the relationship they desperately say they want.

Now that I've given up my old life, which in retrospect wasn't so bad, I have no choice to soldier on and hope I'll meet someone soon.


Six years later...

Woot. 50.

I wonder what the peak age is for single, out gay men to commit suicide?

50 seems logical. If you're gay, 50 and single, it's all over. Why delay the inevitable?

I guess it's true...the grass always does look greener on the other side of the fence. I felt agitated and unfulfilled in the closet. Now I feel unfulfilled, lonely and hopeless. All things considered, I should have come out before 40 or stayed married.

Now that I've blown my old life apart, I have no choice but to pay a younger guy to love me or remain forever alone. I'm so depressed!


Come on all you gay men, you know it's true...there's no good reason for a married guy with kids to come out over 40 - unless he's hot.



  1. well that wasn't very reassuring ... although you left out one deadly warning that a young blogger once sent me - you'd better get this stuff out of your system before your kids start bringing home friends who you might be interested in

  2. Do you want to be buried in a coffin...or in a closet?

    Life keeps being life, not matter at what age. Do you still want to live at your fullest?

  3. Hey Cam - thanks for fucking depressing me. Just kidding - I'm in control of my own happiness.

    Maybe having someone by your side for the rest of your life is overrated. I was single and lived alone for 10 years before getting married. You know what? I was just as happy alone as I was with someone. Happier sometimes - there's something to be said for not having to please a committee with every single decision you make.

    Just sayin'.

    So yes - being married is nice because I didn't have to go off and troll for sex. Wait - let me rephrase that. Being married was weird because I wasn't allowed to go off and troll for sex. Sex was fine for a while - then it stopped. I suspect you understand this.

    I would assume that being in a long term relationship with a man is different in this respect, as women are the gatekeepers for any sexual activity. But you can't expect your partner to be ready every time you are, male or female.

    Yes - it would be great to find a guy who could be my emotional partner for the rest of my life, and keep me interested the bedroom.

    But what if I don't? Do I go looking for a rope and a sturdy tree limb? Isn't there more to life than having a partner tell you made the wrong turn at the last intersection? You have kids. They're likely to have kids of their own one day. You can't enjoy your children and grandchildren without a life partner?

    And maybe you'll just happen to trip over the man of your dreams one day when you least expect it. Hopefully he'll be interested in you, and unattached himself. I'm sending you positive energy now.


  4. What I have found is that there are nice gay men out there; you just have to search and be open minded to the different situations these men are in. Life is not perfect. What I have also found is that there are a lot of men who think they are better than other people or better than they really are and set high expectations. They ignore and overlook those that like them. Then when they have no love, they get lonely and bitter. I think we all should take a look into the mirror and review our personality profiles then we will have the answer.

  5. Hey Cam,

    A couple thoughts about this slightly depressing scenario you have thought up.

    This is really at the back of my mind all the time, and then I regain some hope. I have always believed that you have to enjoy your own company before you enjoy the company of others. This means hobbies, interests, activities, thoughts, etc. I was OK before I married and I would be OK again if divorced. Is it really what I want now? No, but I could deal.

    A phrase I heard but can't remember where relating to gay dating scenes: I was in a room full of 10's all looking for 11's and I felt like a 7. Maybe the hunt for a partner will start in the activities/hobby area. Maybe the love life between you and the partner will include paying for a young guy to "share" now and again. I have heard about this arrangement many times.

    Where do all the "older" gays go? They have to be out there and wiser than us. Are they looking for us and we are too picky?

    BTW- I am a nudist and usually see gays of all ages at the beachs I go to. Put your towel down nearby and start a convo. Maybe it will go somewhere, maybe not. It is nice to talk to someone my age (in person) about these things.


  6. You always want what you can't have and when you have it it's normally a very disappointing anti-climax. After all the years of being married and wanting to be "free" to cruise and fuck who you want (sorry for being so crude) always sounds very tempting - but when you actually have the opportunity and time and freedom to do so, the actual reality is normally a lot less attractive.

    Good luck.


  7. Dodger - it's a line from the movie The Brokenhearts Club. The guy is talking about being a gay man living in LA or SF.

  8. The scenario you have outlined is one that that I have been through mentally many times. I am quite a bit older than you and the other bloggers I read, including goleftatthefork and nexus dodger, and didn't have my first real sexual experience with a man until I was 50. I have often thought that if I had grown up in the 70's instead of the 50's I might have taken a different path from the beginning, but in my formative years it just wasn't in the cards.
    So I married and have grown children and now grandchildren.

    Then too, because I relate better and am much more attracted to men quite a bit younger than I, I am very conditioned to frequent rejection.

    So, in mulling over the consequences of coming out and probably divorcing, with all of it social, family and financial implications and adding to that the unlikeliness at this late date of finding someone with whom I am emotionally and sexually compatible who would spend the rest of my life with me, the decision to stay where I am seems pretty obvious.

    The advice passed on by goleftatthefork is great in the abstract, but, I found there is no way to avoid the crush on children's friends. For the most part I dealt with it. But once, I couldn't. It happened to me about twelve years ago with someone then in his early 30s. It was never "consumated" physically, but we had a very intense emotional relationship for about 4 years that ultimately crashed and burned. To make matters worse, my wife thought we did have a physical relationship because after we had parted ways, the guy told my son I am bi. The whole thing was a bad idea and I knew it, but I couldn't resist. I have never been attracted to anyone like I was to him.

    Dodger's' comment about beaches also rang true. There is a nude beach where I live and I have hooked up there very occasionally over the years, as recently as last Thursday. It's too bad the season is so short! What happens at the beach stays at the beach.

    Thanks for starting the dialogue, Cameron

  9. Great post, and great input men, but I believe there is a third option. A this AND that option rather than a this OR that scenario.

    IE: Stay married, enjoy the joys of family, kids, career, wealth and retirement planning, sex with an interesting and different and oh so yummy gender, AND have a legitimate masculine male friend who also wants it all.

    Sorry guys but I am not conflicted here, I think we CAN have it all. We should have it all. Historically we did have it all.

    I suspect that the conflict comes for us married men, when we engage in these random “hook ups” with a man who has a different agenda.

    He is looking for what you already have.

    I am not looking to substitute or replace what I have but only to augment that. Does that make any sense?

    And my experience tells me that these “hook ups” are tantamount to just whoring around and actually work against ones agenda of finding a real heroic male friend.

    I didn’t say it’s easy but that should be the objective. Shouldn’t it?

    Just wanted to interject since the thread was going along the one-or-the-other vain.

    But I really like that your post did such a great job of weighing the costs. I learned a long time ago that divorce is simply not worth it. At the same time I learned that unhappiness is not an option either and that the two are not mutually exclusive.

    And that men, is to me, a fully mature masculine male (not that I’m anywhere near there yet, LOL).

    Best, John

  10. I know a guy who drives a very beautiful car while living under his wife's little salary. He thinks he has it ALL, too.

  11. being married
    have the love of a wife
    the joys of a family
    and when i feel like it I have the extra excitement of sex with men
    but I would never want to live with another man
    men have great bodies but have minds of jerks and are impossible to live with
    why change if you already have the best situation in life

  12. Thanks for your blog and comments. I am new to this and find your piece and the comments very helpful and a bit reassuring. I recently turned 60 and have not experimented with men (yet) but have a very strong desire to - which has begun to drive me nuts knowing I am not getting younger. My wife knows I like men - and is scared I may leave her. Your comments have further encouraged me to stay married and to work this out - trying to have it both ways.

    Tom from Cleveland

  13. Tom, I am very very glad for you! It is extremely important that you reassure your wife right now. Can you image what is going through her mind? The thought of being alone in retirement is wigging her out.

    As men we need to actually be men. That includes all the responsibilities of security, shelter and enjoyment for those we committed to and made promises to. It is true in business and life. Reneging on that is not a masculine nor manly trait. Although pop culture would let you believe otherwise.

    This entire narrative has been stolen by the “gay agenda” don’t let them do it Tom. They will have you believe you are in denial and that to achieve total nirvana you must first create carnage for all those around you. How does abandoning those you love make one’s own life better?

    Have you ever found an older adult “gay” male who does not externalized their situation? They blame everyone, every politician, every religion for their unhappiness or at least uneasiness.

    I my view a full appreciation of men includes manliness, masculinity and the role of the headship (chose that word on purpose) that comes with that. I have never understood the twinkie, lispy, effeminate affects of some of the gay world and the bizarre promiscuity that comes with all that. I am attracted to men, not males with female attributes. That includes following up on ones commitments.

    Now for you men that say I haven’t walked in your shoes. I am 51, married 31 years, two married children, supported my wife through a life threatening disease; keep myself within 15# of bodybuilding competition weight. And lest you write me off as a beer drinking Neanderthal, I have a way cool kitchen, can cook up a storm with the best of them, enjoy a good wine, love my garden, get haircuts every three weeks (yes I have hair) and sing. I am also probably really ADD, type A and all of the other pseudoscience crap. So if I can do it, well so can you.

    It is a process and to be sure I don’t profess to be fully evolved, but that’s the point it is and evolution, we are never done.

    So thank you for discussing the attributes of being fully functioning men, weighing the costs of selfishness and not just how we get off.

    Respectfully submitted

  14. I'm gay and am 'married' to a gay man - and we're over forty.

    The only thing I'd really like to do now is have some kids.

  15. John,
    If you really care about your wife, stop having sex with another man and stop bragging about your fully-lived life and masculinity. Loud drums are empty inside. You sound stupid.

  16. BAHHHH!!!

    I am NOT stupid.

    Moooooommmmmmmm!!!! Some dick head who doesnt have a name is calling me stupid!!!! Tell it to stop!!!


  17. Cameron
    You are plagued by doubt and fear facing some really bleak scenarios of the future I suspect are just a foil for comparison to the deeply flawed life that at least you know and does give you some pleasure. Even if you fully loved your life, if your lust is never going to go for a woman, you need some other model than what you have, and you will have to work on that, and you can always find some narrative about how that will make you more lonely. Maybe you need more books on the successful ways men like you have resolved this all.

    You spent no time in your twenties dating and searching and working through the disapointments and failures that are the preludes to finding the right woman to marry or right man to partner, as about 100 million American men have done. You reluctantly and obligingly married Gabbie knowing you were gay, so even your one long time relationship started with compromises and secrets that most men did not settle for when they found their love mate.

    This means it is much harder for you to imagine finding the next soulmate or trusting that even just being a separate open gay man could lighten up your life and bring new friends and start a wonderful process of enlarging your life, even if you do not find another long term lover. We will all have to deal with aging and decaying in whatever cluster of friends and lovers and partners and wives we have when the time comes, and there is no guarantee that what you have now will sustain you in that developmental stage.

    Sorry to hector you sometimes, but I feel like you need to get out of your head and the negativity and doubt that is stored up there. You are too fine a man to waste away in a bad marriage in my humble opinion.

  18. John, I don't think you are stupid, but unless your wife knows you are screwing around with other guys are a weasel. You are a cheater. You are NOT honoring your commitment to her. If you disagree with me, tell her you are having sex with men. If she thinks it's cool, I will admit I am wrong. If she is pissed off, then you are wrong. It's really that simple.

    It does not matter if YOU think you can have it all. My guess is YOUR WIFE thinks you have an exclusive relationship. If you comfort yourself by saying you are only cheating with men and not other women, and that makes it ok, you are fooling yourself.

    In the end, it will not matter what I think. It will matter what she thinks.

  19. Jim well said.

    I am talking about friendship, not whoring around, on this point we agree. Too much of the “advice” here postulates multiple one night stands as a way to find either oneself or just the right mate. I would no more do that with other men than I would with other women.

    I am just trying to refocus the narrative away from the notion that the male sexual identity is so polarizing. That one is gay or straight, or that a bi male is somehow conflicted.

    To clarify, I am not “having sex with men”, see above. I do have a couple close male friendships that may or may not one day develop into something beyond pats, hugs, showering at the club, peeing in the woods, working out a bum shoulder or “I love ya man”…we will see. That is a far cry from the quintessential hook up. I am neither propagating a physical relationship with these friends nor would I stymie one. (Btw they are also married with children and have the same agenda)

    As such Jim, men have choices and responsibilities. Although all things are possible not all things edify. We may not like the choices we have within our current circumstance yet make them we must.

    As for telling my wife, that Jim is a very good point when and if that becomes necessary.

    Can I ask you, at what point would it become necessary?

    She already knows we hang out together, she has seen us hug, she knows we’ve seen each other naked, she has seen either of us cry, we go on guy outings. We are good friends not in a relationship. This will be crass, but is anal intercourse the same as, say, mutual masturbation? Is a massage the same as a blow job? Am I being too legalistic? Can we use the Bill Clinton definition of sex??

    Do you have any thoughts?

  20. John,
    You sound even more stupid now. It's so arrogant of you to equate people who go out looking for love/relationship/whatsoever as whoring around or having multiple one-night-stands. This just shows how limited and ignorant you present yourself to be. This is why gay people are being negatively perceived, and you are perpetuating it. You see, I'm not saying you are stupid; I'm just saying that you sound stupid. You do. With your last attempt to sound smart, it made me laugh. I do see your sensitive sign do cry! How sad, within that wonderful life of yours, some tears managed to leak out.

  21. Dear Anonymous, please grow up.

    You are the classic example of a selfish, self centered adult (I assume), still functioning in his ID, still externalizing all your issues and still skipping basic responsibilities and jumping staight up to selfactualization.

    My guess is you are either actually only 5 years old or if thats not true you live in SF or you are a tenured professor at Berkley.

    I am also betting you have never had a sustained relationship of any kind, but of course thats not your fault either as you fail to see the cause and effect of your pop culture choices.

    Time for my coffee.

  22. John, I am sorry, I made an assumption you were having sex with men.

    The answer of what your wife needs to know and when, is really a question only you and her can answer. When something happens between you are your friend that you feel comfortable sharing with her, it's probably OK. When something happens you would not feel comfortable sharing, then you might have a problem.

    Good luck,