Saturday, February 11, 2012

Sex? Yes! Coffee? No!!!!!!!!!

Sex is easy to find, but actual dates? Not so much.

I've tried a little of everything, from social groups to bars to relationship-oriented dating sites. I'm not sure that any one method is better than the others. What seems to be most important is to be proactive about meeting new people. Finding someone is mostly a numbers game.

What sucks for me is that my numbers are horrible.

Over the last few weeks I have proactively contacted ten different 40-something guys on a dating site and asked if they'd be interested in meeting for coffee or a drink. Nine of them ignored me.

I haven't tried, but my guess is that if I asked ten different guys on Grindr to come over for a hook-up I'd have much more success. I say that because I consistently get more attention on Grindr than I ever have on a traditional dating site.

What's up with that?

I really wish I could have a few coffee dates just to find out. The kind of men I'm hunting - (supposedly) relationship-oriented, single, urban gay men over the age of 40 - are largely a mystery to me. I don't understand what makes them tick or why they do what they do. I certainly don't understand why they have an active profile on a dating site if they don't want to meet for coffee.

Of course I spend a lot of time blaming myself. Do all 40-something guys have a 90% rejection rate (and counting...) or am I just that undesirable?

Why can't I look more like Matt Damon?

I'd be practically suicidal by now if it wasn't for Grindr. Thankfully the hook-up crowd doesn't ignore me.

The thing can I be good enough to want to fuck but not good enough to have coffee with?

Seriously: WTF?

Although every rejection makes me feel more discouraged, the good news is that I am developing a thicker skin. I now fully expect to be rejected.

The other 'good' news is that I still have plenty of guys I can ask out. Which is what I intend to do. I'll keep asking, they'll keep ignoring me and eventually I'll switch to a new dating site where I can repeat the process all over again. Fun!

On a more positive note, one guy did agree to meet. He was actually the first guy I asked so that was a short-lived ego boost.

I picked him first because he was in the middle of my list. I thought it would be wise to start with a no-pressure practice date. Mark was good practice. He's four years older, very nice and easy to talk with. We didn't have any romantic chemistry but he very graciously invited me to a hors d'oeuvres / dinner out event that he and his roommates host weekly - a perfect event for me. It's like coffee with a bunch of new people without having to ask.

The week after we met, I took Mark up on his dinner-out offer and met four of his friends. How should I describe them? They were odd. An Asian Steve Erkel, a 'professional' massage therapist (aka Gay with No Job), a curmudgeonly senior, and, the most interesting of all, the biggest stoner I've met since high school. Practically every sentence he said had something do with getting high or smoking pot.

In addition to the one date with Mark, I've been pinged a few times - all by guys who are 5 or more years older.

Last weekend I met one guy, Nick, a 52yo. I was pretty indifferent about meeting him until he told me that he came out of the closet at 40. I figured that even if we had no chemistry I could at least learn from his experiences.

Nick has never been married. In fact, the longest relationship he's ever had, with a man or a woman, is three years. I can see why; he's someone who blends into the background. A 'nice guy.' I feel bad for him.

Our date was brunch. The entire time we were in the restaurant we had to share a table with a straight couple. Although our conversation never lagged it was awkward having the straights there; neither of us felt free to talk openly. Because I really wanted to hear about his experiences dating men, when we finished eating, I suggested that we walk. Which we did for more than an hour.

Unfortunately, Nick's experiences with men were pretty meager. When I tried to get him to explain the mystique of the urban, relationship-seeking 40-something homo, he was as clueless as me.

The most 'exciting' part of the date happened when he said he wanted to kiss me. Until he said that, the possibility of kissing him had never entered my mind. Then he actually tried to do it - but I turned away. Awkward!

All I could think to say was, "I'm not ready for that."

After the aborted kiss we walked and talked for another 20 minutes, but I couldn't stop feeling traumatized. How do you nicely tell a seldom-loved guy that you don't want to kiss him?

Since meeting we've emailed back and forth a number of times but I remain very conflicted about what to do. It feels good to be wanted after being rejected by Gabbie. Likewise it feels good to be wanted after being rejected by guy after guy. I really crave being wanted. But I have no natural romantic feelings for him. I know I could learn to enjoy making out with him, but is that what I should be doing? Learning to enjoy it?

Maybe when I reach my 100th rejection in a row I'll think more seriously about 'letting' someone grow on me. Until then, I'm not beaten down enough to consider the idea.

OK, I just got an email that says "an exceptionally good match" is checking me out!

I wonder if it's anyone interesting. Drum roll please while I check....

Another admirer from the "73 years young!" crowd.

Really, it's amazing that I'm still single.


  1. Hi Cam,
    Just checking in. I am glad that you are doing the dating thing. I know that with girls it is good to start with coffee, but maybe guys are different. LOL I have no trouble getting sex as you say on CL ect. Sometimes we click and I want to to do repeats and sometimes that happens. I am not really trying to have a relationship, but friends with bens is nice. I know it is not your style, but maybe have sex (of some sort) and then go for coffee? Also gay friends of friends can lead to places.


  2. Why don't you try talking to these guys like you are going to hookup, but then say let's meet for coffee first just to see if we click (or so I can get comfortable you're not an axe murderer). See how coffee goes, and maybe you really will want to hookup with the guy. Otherwise you could say "I don't have a place so let's do this another time."

    At least this way you have a better shot at getting them to show up.

  3. "The thing can I be good enough to want to fuck but not good enough to have coffee with?"

    I feel like this problem is common in the gay world regardless of your age. Certainly applies to me anyway.

  4. I was 51 when the divorce started. I knew right away that I wanted to find a guy so I started on and It lead to a lot of great chats and some of those turned into dates.

    Sadly, I found that a lot of people who chat well did not have chemistry when we met for coffee or dinner. One guy smoked so much that when he said 'hello', I felt that the date was over.

    I've been more the Man of Empire type so I think I attracted guys who had secret yearnings to climb the Himalayas but were accountants.

    I struck gold with a little patience -- and married him in 2007.

    Maybe you are so young that you still only attract the hormone crazed? :) Ron

  5. I'm a closeted gay man, very introverted, insecure, and have a physical difference as well. I'm very reluctant to just meet some-one for sex without knowing them first. In my late 30s and early 40s, I hired somw rent-boys, but that was ultimately unsatisfying and I haven't done it for years. Once, I hooked up with a guy on Cruiseline, but he never came back. I am pretty certain that I will never have a close relationship with another human being, let alone have sex with some-one.
    You are right about wanting to meet some-one in a non-sexual way first. Sex without emotional attachment is meaningless, and, ultimately, counter-productive. If I feel the need to ejaculate, my left hand works wonders.

  6. My own experience has been that the vast majority of guys that hang on the man sites are only interested in sex. Even when I placed a Strictly Platonic M4M ad on Craigslist a large number of responses I got were sexually related.

  7. Hey, Cam. Just checking in to see what's what. Glad to hear that you're workin at it. If I ever write a post anywhere that says "73 years" or anything else "young," please shoot me. You know what I think about all this: follow your interests, find like-minded men, etc. All the best, Jason

  8. Both Paul and I have been there. He "dated" lots of guys (30, 40?), and really I mean dated, just dinner or drinks when he first came out in his late 30's. I dated six guys before I met Paul. I was pretty lucky. You'll find him, keep trying. It's a numbers and timing thing. All it takes is that one.

    P.S. No, you should not make out with someone you have no romantic feelings for. You have paid your dues, go for the one that knocks your socks off!

  9. New follower of your blog, & I'm enjoying it!

    Were you & your former wife into kissing? Have you ever kissed a man? Why don't you invite him to your place for coffee & to give you kissing lessons? You might like it. You might be surprised!

  10. Welcome to the world of same-sex dating for middle-aged, relationship-minded gay men.

    Yes, it really is easier to find a guy for sex than to find one who'll agree to meet you for coffee. And even then, there's a good chance he'll flake on you.

    And it doesn't stop there. If, by some stroke of good fortune, you hit it off and agree to meet again, he may very well disappear on you anyway. And if you do manage to have a few dates with the same guy, it's more likely that you'll stick together for a few weeks or months than the rest of your life. Believe me, lots of guys who can get those first, second, and even fourth dates, can't make it last very long. On the other hand, some do.

    Middle-aged straight guys go through some of the same things, but, in my experience, it's harder for gay guys to find partners for long-term relationships.

    By the way, even extremely handsome guys have these problems. In fact, they may have even more difficulty than average looking guys. Sure, they get the first dates, but they are often insecure about whether guys are attracted to them only for their looks.

  11. Roger - Single Guy used to frequently say that "sex is the gay handshake." It seems to be true that many guys would rather met and hook-up THEN talk vs. date in the typical straight way. I'm not at the point where I want to hook-up but maybe I'll feel differently in the future. Never say never, right?

    RB - I've thought about your exact suggestion. I might go that route when I exhaust the possibilities on the "dating" sites and have to switch to Adam4Adam and Manhunt.

    El Genio - Thanks for making me less like a freak. I'm sorry that you're not having good luck either but I'm also glad to know that I'm not the only one.

    Ron - I have noticed a different attitude from 50-something guys. Many more of them want to talk. This phenomenon has made me wonder if 40-something guys are refusing to give up their youthful ways. Then, by the time they're 51 or 52, they adjust their attitudes. I need to ask more 50-something guys about this.

    Davey - Thanks for stopping by and for commenting. You and I feel the same way about wanting a connection and your left hands. It's easy to get off. It's easy to find a hook-up. But a real connection? It's not easy, especially when so many guys are just looking to get off.

    Anonymous 7:19 - Thanks for sharing your observations. So far, everyone seems to agree that sex is first and foremost on most guys' minds.

    Jason - Thanks for saying hi! I often think about your suggestion. I check on meet-up groups every few weeks and I check the GLBT social calendar. Nothing has clicked yet, but I keep trying.

    Bill - I have found myself adjusting my expectations. Instead of focusing on individual guys, I'm trying to be more focused on habits. Things like, asking out at least two guys a week and developing my dating skills on those rare occasions when I do meet someone. Knowing that it IS a numbers game actually makes the rejection easier to take. Thanks for commenting.

    Welcome cum.lover - No, my former wife was not much into kissing. Yes, I have kissed many men. Many. But that was a long time ago... Kissing lessons with the right guy sounds fun. No, I'm not on twitter. Thanks for reading and commenting.

    Anonymous 2:17 - Your comment was a bit depressing but I'd rather know the facts rather than be delusional. You make an interesting point about extremely handsome guys. I avoid them but maybe I shouldn't?? Maybe after a few more months of continuous rejection I'll be so immune to it that I'll start messaging the hottest guys.