"GAY" DOES NOT DEFINE ME!!! - (Bi / Gay Story - Part 26)

 "I'm in a relationship with a girl that I didn't seek. I thought the relationship would fade when we went long-distance. Now she wants more from me...I'm so conflicted about what to do. The only thing I know for sure is that 'GAY' should not define me!"

Found! The Missing Three Chapters of "Fraternity Memoirs"

For those of you who are not familiar with "Fraternity Memoirs," it's a mostly-true tale of a college freshman and his crazy sexual experiences when he pledged a fraternity in the mid-'90s.  Written under the pen name of "John Walsh", the story has become a time-tested classic.  Although the last chapter was published in 2003, fans continue to scour the Internet on a daily basis hoping to find new installments.

The story is amazingly captivating, not only because of the hot sex, but also because of the people involved.  They're real and the more you read, the more you want to know about them and what happens next.

Walsh published 23 installments, between April of 2001 and December of 2003.  You can read them all HERE.

Because he never came close to finishing his story, Walsh was relentless badgered to write more, especially after he announced his "retirement."

Eventually he grew tired of being hounded so he agreed to provide closure by participating in a two-hour Internet chat session in April of 2004.  A hard-to-find log of that chat session is posted HERE.

Chronologically, the chat session tells the final parts of John's story.  However, the last time he actually provided new material was in June of 2006.

For years he'd been hinting that he had partially written chapters.  His fans, of course, begged him to either finish them or share what he had.  Finally, he did that, but in an extremely low key way.  He posted two emails to a small Yahoo group and added an attachment to the second email that included a rough draft of what he believed was one of his most important unpublished chapters.

Not long after he posted those emails, Yahoo deleted the group, and thus was born the legend of the "three missing chapters of Fraternity Memoirs."

I was recently shocked and thrilled to learn from Billy, a reader who stumbled on this blog, that the small Yahoo group was reinstated some weeks after it was deleted.  ALL of the messages remain deleted.  ALL of the original membership was removed.  However, still posted in the files section is a long lost gem, JW.htm.

The file is titled "Part of John Walsh's Synopsis."  Because I continually participated in all of the various Walsh-related yahoo groups, I am confident that I've read everything he's ever posted.  For that reason, I don't believe this file is part of anything bigger.  I believe the only other part of Walsh's synopsis is the much longer, story-ending Internet chat session that happened in 2004.

These "missing chapters" are exactly what I've been looking for and what's posted below is exactly what I remember reading.  As far as I know, there's nothing more.  This is it.

The way the file is posted in the Yahoo group, it looks like one chapter. But because I remember how it was originally written, I know what the three different parts were.  I have marked them below.  Other than that, and a few minor spelling corrections, what's posted below is the same file that's still posted in the Yahoo group.

Enjoy!

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[The First Email]

Happy Memorial Day Weekend Everyone. I hope you are all doing well. I'm better, after the little emotional breakdown that I had. Whew, I had a lot of things hitting me at once. Problems with a current relationship, a new attraction, a focus on a not so pleasant time of my life that I haven't confronted in a long time, and the realization that I had to address a broken, very broken, relationship of the past. I have a long way to go before I think I can have peace of mind, but I am working towards that. But the fact that I am facing all this, and I see that it will all turn out for the best, puts me in a much better frame of mind than I was a couple of weeks ago. Again, I want to thank each and everyone one of you for the e-mails you sent with kind words and caring. It means more than you know, and in a way, is giving me the courage to do what I have to do.

That said, I promised that I would never let the story end without wrapping it up. This may sound choppy, as I am going to try and fit a lot in a brief space, but maybe someday I will come back and fill in the middle. So here goes... Kevin and I continue to have a "secret relationship". I slowly become more comfortable with man-man sex and do become a much more willing and reciprocating partner. There came a point in time in my sophomore year that we were really pushing the envelope, hooking up in places where we should have been caught but never were, like in the bathroom at the Fraternity House while there was a line waiting outside to use the bathroom.

I should also mention that we did not get our charter back that year. While we were away for Spring break, a new group had petitioned to be recognized as well. It was a Fra-rority, as we called it. A group of 10 (minimum amount needed) made up of guys and girls. No one had ever even heard of this group, and we believe was put together by the dean of student life last minute to take our spot. Since the cap was put in place, with just one spot open, only one of us could be recognized. The dean also pulled something else out of his ass. He said something about the constitution of the greek council not addressing what would happen in such a case, and he appoint a special 5 member board (of which he was one) that would pick the group to be recognized. I'm sure its no surprise, but the other group one. Biggest load of hore shit ever. We thought about suing the school, but didn't have the money to do so. After trashing campus, we realized that we were much better underground anyway and not have to put up with the bullshit rules of the greek council. Without realizing it, the school had created its worst nightmare.

Before going home summer after my freshman year, I went on the annual canoe trip that my Fraternity has the weekend after finals were done. Its pretty much a send off to the graduating seniors. 8 hours of going down a river wasted and then camping out for the night. A bunch of us did mushrooms that day, neither Kevin nor Adam were shrooming. At one point, while my mind was tripping hard, I mentioned to Adam that what he saw in the tent at the pledge camping trip between Kevin and I wasn't the only time that it had happened. I don't remember it all that well since I was so fucked up, but what I do remember is that it was like a 20 second conversation. Didn't mean to tell him, and didn't even realize that I told him. You have to know shrooms to get how that can happen. One second you say one thing, and then the next second, you are on a completely different subject with no going back. I don't think that Adam even reacted. He knew I was wasted and let me go on.

That summer I worked in the beach club again. Although I was a little apprehensive to hook up with a guy so close to home, after awhile I couldn't resist my urge and was hooking up almost nightly with that guy Bobby. Bobby was the first guy that I fucked. And once I did, I loved it. It was definitely a drunk thing, knocking on his cabana at 2 in the morning and having sex. I was definitely using him. I'm not bragging, and regret it. We are still friends, Bobby and I, to a certain degree. We've talked about it, and I have apologized to him. But he never complained, and said that no apology was necessary. He knew that nothing "romantic" would ever happen between us, so in a way, he was using me as well.

Also that summer, I went down to the Jersey shore for a weekend and hung out at Adam's. We were really stoned one night and had a blast. Lying on the beach, Adam asked me if it was true what I had said about Kevin at the canoe trip. I hardly remembered telling him, and it shocked me. Come to think of it, the only real memory I have of the conversation at the canoe trip is what Adam told me. So its really his memory in my head. I told him that it was true, and was very shy about it. I asked him if he had ever hooked up with a guy before and he said that he had, in high school. He also admitted, that just like Kevin and I, he and Andy (pres) had messed around in the sleeping bag the night of their camping trip. But nothing ever happened between them again. When he was really stoned, he also admitted that from time to time, he still thought about hooking up with guys, but didn't think that he could ever do it again. Nothing that night happened between Adam and I. I was too afraid to initiate it, and who knows what could have happened, but I think that it could have. But still, it is one of the most memorable nights that I had. We really had a lot of fun, and one of the funniest fucking things happened that night that till this day, I still can't get through the story without crying from laughter and my stomach hurting. I don't have the time to tell it here, but maybe some day I will. I'm going to put this in parts, so it doesn't get cut off. I will, at least, write and post the second part tonight...

[The Second Email]

Sophomore year was a blast. Since Matt was away, and I really missed him, I lived with who I think I called Evan in the story. Big druggie and sold on campus. That quickly rubbed off on me (not selling, just using) and was pretty much stoned, coked up, drunk and/or tripping on a nightly basis. I was hell in the Residence Director's life. I was the kind of guy that you loved to hate. At least once a week, sometimes two or three, I was setting a fire alarm off in the middle of the night. I called them 4 o'clock socials. We were up and everyone was asleep at that time, and needed to hang out, so why not wake up the entire dorm and hang outside for awhile. Everyone, including the RA, knew I was doing them, but could never prove it. I was in her office weekly. But she really liked me for some odd reason, and I was never expelled from the dorms. We took a pledge class the first semester and it was so awesome to be on the other side. I rushed hard that semester, walking the dorms and encouraging everyone to come out.

There was one guy that I rushed really hard. He was so damn hot, and yes I wanted him. But he didn't want to pledge his freshman year. We saw him from time to time at parties, and we stayed friendly. I was one of the cool brothers to the pledges. I never gave out a demerit, never bitched out the pledges at
line ups, snuck them drinks and got them stoned when they weren't supposed to be, and even kidnapped one or two here and there so they could catch up on some sleep in my room. Both the fall and the sping class loved me. It came to the point where they were asking me to go on the pledge roadtrips with them, Philly, NYC, other campuses. They'd knock on my door and say Walsh, you want to come? Most times I was fucked up and was like hell yeah! Kevin and I continued to hook up. We hid it really well. no one had an idea, except Adam, and that was a really odd situation. I would catch Adam looking at Kevin and I if we were hanging together, and it always cause me to walk away from Kevin. I never told Kevin that Adam knew till Adam graduated.

Kevin was the first one to fuck me. It happened shortly into the first semester sophomore year. Since fucking Bobby over the summer, I was dying to try and fuck Kevin. But somehow, Kevin always seemed to be in control. And to a certain degree, I liked Kevin being in control. By this point, he had tried to fuck me a couple of times, but I always said no. But I finally made a bargain with him. I'd let him fuck me if he would let me fuck him. Kevin claimed that he was a top and never been fucked before (I will admit to an "untrue" part of FM. The night of the hookers, when I was pledging, that part was totally true, but the part about "red" going into the room with Kevin and the strap on was not true. I don't know why I put it in there or where I thought I would go with it...).

But who was going to go first? I totally wanted to go first, and so did Kevin. What decided it? A flip of the coin. And Kevin one. He fucked me first. And the first time was a terrible experience. It hurt so bad. I was so frightened of it that it was neither enjoyable for me or Kevin. AS soon as he was all the way in, I was screaming for him to take it out, or I literally squeezed him out. Kevin kept telling me to relax, and he did everything to get me to relax and open up. I knew he had been waiting for this a long time, but he eventually gave up. And it left me with a really bad taste for gay sex. I didn't even want to attempt fucking Kevin after that, I was so embarrassed and, well, violated.

But a couple of nights later, drunk, I was hooking up with Kevin again. I thought it would be my turn this time, but Kevin insisted that last time didn't count. So I let him try again. And this time, for whatever reason, it worked. My god did it work. It almost didn't. But something clicked. I opened up for Kevin, and although definitely painful to begin with, it eventually subsided and I felt the most immense pleasure I have ever felt in my life. And Kevin went a long time and fucked me hard, to the point that both of us were dripping sweat. We had tried a few positions, and finished up in the position that I liked the most, on my back with ankles up and in Kevin's hands. He really started to fuck me good. Hard, but not too hard, steady and long. And then this feeling was growing inside of me. A feeling of complete and utter pleasure. I was moaning as it swelled, and then it hit me. It felt I was coming, but physically, I wasn't, not just yet. I was overcome with the feeling of the most mind blowing orgasm, and just when it began to subside, without my touching my dick, I felt the surge of a second orgasm, and this time, my dick just started spewing cum all over me. I couldn't believe that I was cumming without anyone or anything touching my dick. It was, I can't even verbalize it properly, one of the most amazing sexual experiences I have ever had, and to this day, when I jerk off, my mind typically goes back to that moment. It was like a double orgasm. Kevin could do that to me here and there, not always, and only one other guy could make me cum that way.

When Kevin saw what he did to me, he was seconds behind me before emptying his own load, into the condom he was wearing, inside my ass. It took me like an hour before my mind was back to normal and functioning. And in typical JW fashion, I was guilty about it for days. I couldn't believe that I took so much pleasure in getting fucked. It was totally gay, which of course made me gay, which of course I wasn't. But I jerked off maybe 20 times in a week thinking about how amazing it felt. It took me almost a week before I could actually talk to Kevin. In my own way of dealing with things, it was easier to avoid Kevin than it was to confront the issue.

After that, Kevin wanted to fuck me all the time. But I didn't want to become a fuck rag for Kevin, even though on a certain level I wanted nothing more than to have an orgasm like that again. But eventually, I let my guard down, and Kevin was fucking me on a regular basis. Sometimes we'd fuck in the fraternity house while a party was going on, finding an empty bedroom upstairs to get it on. And the more that Kevin fucked me, the more I opened up to him and eventually began to fall in love with Kevin. And yes, I did, on occasion, fuck Kevin. But he definitely was more of a top than a bottom, which was fine with me.

I had another feel up of Adam that first semester, but this time he was awake. During that pledge class' hooker night, I had an idea. I wanted to repeat the threesome that Adam and I had. So I approached him on it, very nervous since he knew about Kevin and I, and said that I was buying if he was interested. He didn't jump on the idea, but after thinking about it, he agreed. It was definitely a little awkward at first. As much as I wanted to touch him, I felt that he was avoiding actually touching me. But at one point, the chick was sucking Adam's dick and I was lying next to him watching her slurp on his dick. This time around, I didn't even care about the chick. I was here to se Adam. He had his eyes closed and without thinking much about it, I reached out my hand and started feeling up his chest. He didn't open his eyes at first, but eventually he did and saw that it was me. He didn't say anything, he just looked me in the eyes before closing them once again. I took that as a sign that he was OK with it and I continued to feel up his chest and play with his nipples.

I desperately wanted to bring my mouth to his nipples and suck on them, but with the chick in the room, I was too embarrassed. And when the girl looked up and saw what I was doing, I was self conscious about it and took my hand away. That was most of the contact we had until the end. The hooker was sucking my dick while Adam fucked her doggie style. I felt a pair of hands on my calves, which I thought were her's at first. But then I realized where he hands were, pretty much right next to my hips. And as I looked in between her legs, I saw that it was Adam who had his hands down and rubbing my calves. I looked up and Adam was looking at me. Knowing that he was touching me and looking at me, I pretty much shot my load immediately. Adam wasn't too far behind me.

After we were done, nothing was said about it. I mean, we didn't do too much to talk about, but it was worth every dollar. And throughout the entire first semester, I hooked up with more chicks than anyone. Since I was so fucked up most of the time, many of them were nothing to brag about. I needed the cover, even for myself. Yes, I liked getting fucked by Kevin, but see, I still liked hooking up with girls. All - Yeah, I know this isn't the greatest way to "End it". But as Conorb22 mentioned, I may never write the whole story. So rather than leave you there in limbo, I figure the synopsis is better than nothing at all. After sticking with me after all this time, its the least that I can do.

[The Email Attachment]

At the end of first semester sophomore year, I ran for Chaplain and won. As far as big things that happened second semester sophomre year, only a couple of big things happened to me that I can think of at the moment. One, I found out that I was not the only guy that Kevin was hooking up with, and that in fact, I was just one of many. It shattered me, to a certain degree. I mentioned last e-mail that I was beginning to "fall" for Kevin. And it wasn't so much that I loved him, I just thought that what we had was special and unique between the two of us. I dealt with it, but it was never quite the same again, the intimacy to me felt gone somewhat, and I was just another hook up. He told me that I wasn't, but I could read through his lines. I didn't want him to give up hooking up with other guys, I wasn't looking for a relationship, it just hurt, if you know what I mean. Kevin and I did continue to fool around though. And although I began to open my eyes up to other possibilities (men) besides Kevin, I never did anything with anyone else, besides...

Two, a few weeks into second semester, Adam was beginning to have the "graduation blues", knowing that at the end of this semester, he would be in the real world. I actually have about half of the story written, all the way up the sex part. I am attaching what I have written of the chapter. Its pretty much the set up. I haven't edited it, and I think its pretty raw, so please forgive the typos. What is missing is the juicy part.

It was a Wednesday and neither Adam nor I had classes. We decided to go out and get some lunch at The Olive Garden, just the two of us. I loved spending time just with Adam. Lunch was good and Adam was
talking about how he wanted to do something spontaneous soon, since he would be graduating at the end of the semester. When we were done with lunch we hopped in my car and headed back to campus. Since he had mentioned it, my mind had been running crazy trying to think of something spontaneous that we could do before the semester ends. Adam had done so much for me the last couple of years, that I wanted to do something for him in return. And then I had an idea. It came out of nowhere. I debated it a minute with myself and then smiled at my thought. But should we do it right now, I wondered? Right now would be spontaneous, and that's what he wanted.

Why the fuck not, I thought, lets go for it. I stopped at a gas station and filled the car up, putting the final touches to my idea. This could be fun, but we had a long drive ahead of us. I hoped that Adam was in the same mindset as myself, that he really wanted to be spontaneous, and that it just wasn't lunch conversation. Back in the car, I had to do everything I could to contain myself from laughing. Nothing was particularly funny, I was just excited. We drove past campus and Adam says, "Ah, Walsh, that was our exit?" and points behind us. "I know," I say, trying not to laugh, but I can't help myself. "What? What are you laughing at? Where are you going?" "I was thinking about what you said. We're heading someplace spontaneous," I answered. "Yeah, cool. Where?" he asked and looked at his watch. I hoped he didn't need to be anyplace, we wouldn't be back to campus any time soon. "I don't know, I'll tell you when I figure it out," I responded. I had already figured it out, but I was afraid to tell Adam because he may opt out. Not that he wouldn't
want to go, but there were other considerations, like Michele. He gave me this "what are you up to look?" but didn't challenge me.

So I drove and drove some more. I had thrown in a Chili Peppers tape and we talked about the new pledge class, who we thought was going to drop and whatnot. "Philly?" he asked me, as we approached the City. "Maybe," I said with a smile. As we hit Philly the Chili's tape was over and I threw in Dave Matthews. Philly isn't that big of a City, and in a few minutes, we were through Philly and I was still heading south. Adam was ready to play my game and didn't flinch as we crossed into Delaware. Adam is a little bit of a control freak, and I know he didn't like not knowing where we were going. But he didn't show it. "I know where we are going," he said about 10 minutes through Delaware, which on I-95 is like half way through the State. Delaware is tiny for those of you on the west coast. "Where?" I amused him. "Baltimore." But it was more of a question than an answer. "Maybe," I responded. He looked at me, trying to figure me out. I tried not to laugh, but a smile came to my face.

He took that as an affirmation, but boy, was he wrong. "Well, it's awhile till Baltimore, which is cool, because I want to talk to you about something," he said. What Adam told me took me as a surprise. He was thinking about taking the NJ State Troopers test. If you recall, Adam is a business major. He never mentioned anything about law enforcement before so this was news to me. I told him I thought it was cool, but why the sudden change? He had taken a Law and Justice class last semester as an elective. It was supposed to be an easy A, which it was, but he absolutely loved the class. Since then, it's been on his mind and he thought it would be something that he would really enjoy doing. He also said that he didn't want to have a suit job with the same monotonous hours crunching numbers. He'd watched his father do it for years and wasn't certain that he wanted the same life. But he was afraid about how Michele was going to take it. He knew how she was going to take it, and it wasn't going to be good.

My response was that it was his life, and he should do what he wants to do. After all, its not like they were married or anything. And then he said what I knew would be said one day, I just hoped that day would never come. "True, but we're gonna get married some day." I wanted this to be a happy trip and didn't want my opinion on that to be known, so I kept my answer to myself. I'd known Adam for over a year now, and I still didn't understand his relationship with Michele. We'd talked about her dozens of times, but he always talks so highly of her, and I've never had the heart to say that she is a boring, control freak drip that doesn't like any of your friends. "You could do so much better,' I wanted to say. But didn't, because somewhere, deep down inside, I was jealous. The ¡¥better' was me, John Walsh. He's be so much better off with me. An impossibility, I knew, on both of our parts. But still, I was jealous. And I refused to let my jealousy speak for me. So instead, I avoided the Michele subject all together. "Well, if it's meant to be, she will have to understand," I answered.

He was also nervous about the background checks. According to Adam, they did a pretty thorough investigation and interviewed friends and family. Adam wasn't big into drugs, but he smokes some pot here and there. His biggest fear was them finding out about that one time he tried mushrooms. And has been blitzed on more than a few occasions. My view on that was that everyone has smoked pot to some degree, and certainly cops were known to be drinkers, that he shouldn't be too worried about that. And as far as the mushrooms, no one, not even Michele, knew about that but his Brothers and we would cover for him. We talked to it for a good hour or more. The test was in a few weeks, and he decided to wait and tell Michele until he had the results of the test back. If he didn't score high enough to make the academy, why even bring it up. It sounded like a bad idea to me, but I agreed with him. This time, I allowed my jealousy to speak for me.

Eventually, we made our way into Baltimore. After going through the tunnel, I moved over into the right hand lane, as if I was going to exit into Baltimore. "I knew it," Adam said. Sucker. Instead, I passed a car in front of me, in the center lane, and then pulled back in front of it. "You knew what?" I asked as Baltimore disappeared behind us. "Damn Walsh, where the hell are you taking us?" I cracked up laughing, I couldn't contain myself anymore. I was excited, but a little worried myself. Would he totally freak? I'd have to tell him eventually, I didn't know how much longer he could keep guessing before he demanded to know where we were going. "I had no idea when I woke up this morning that we would be doing this. Evan is going to freak when I call him and tell him where we are," I said, egging Adam on. "And that would be?" "You'll see when we get there. You said you wanted to do something spontaneous, right?" "Yeah, I did. But I thought spontaneous was something spur of the moment, not two and half hours in the car," he said sarcastically back.

I kept quiet, thinking, we got a lot further to go yet, two and half hours ain't nothing. "Washington D.C.?" he asked. "Maybe," I shrugged my shoulders. Almost out of gas before hitting  Washington DC, I pulled over to fill up again. Adam jumped out to take a leak and grab something to drink. I ran in to take a piss myself and Adam was paying for a Coke, a Yohoo and a couple of candy bars. It brought a smile to my face, seeing him buy me the Yohoo. It was for me. He knew it was my favorite and was buying it for me, without even asking. Consideration, just like that, went far with me. When I came out of the gas station, Adam was standing outside the car. The drinks and snacks on the roof. "You ready?" I asked him as I opened the driver's side car.

"I'm not getting in till you tell me where we are going." "That's not very spontaneous," I joked. "Fuck spontaneous, I want to know," he answered. He wasn't mad, but I could tell he was serious. I couldn't blame him, we had been driving for hours. "If you really want to know and ruin the surprise, we are going to Washington D.C. There, are you happy now?" I pretended to be pissed and jumped in the car, starting the engine. Adam grabbed the snacks and got in the car himself. "Don't be mad Walsh, I just wanted to know where the hell we were going. I've gone along with this for a long time and wanted to make sure that we were actually headed somewhere." He passed me the Yohoo, holding it out, like he was making peace. He was so damn cute I couldn't stand it. Me Adam, you should be with me, not Michele.

"Well, we're almost there, so lets get going," I said as I took the Yohoo from him. "To the Capital, driver," he said as I put the car in drive and got back on I-95. When we drove past Washington DC, Adam's face turned sour. "What the fuck Walsh, we are we going?" It was like he was the Pledge Master again, and I was the pledge. His tone was annoyed and harsh. He wasn't playing anymore and I needed to tell him where we are going. I could hear it in his voice, the game was up. "You really want to know?" "Yes, I really want to know. Pull the car over." "I don't want to pull the car over, I'll tell you while" And Adam cut me off. "Pull the fucking car over Walsh so we can talk about this."

This wasn't going exactly as I had imagined. I pulled off to the shoulder, stopped the car and put it in Park. Adam took the last slug of his Coke then twisted the top back on, tight. "Thank you," he said, his voice a lot calmer. "Sorry for yelling, but please tell me where we are going, and tell me the truth this time." "Florida," I answered, looking at him for a reaction. "Florida?" His reaction was one of disbelief. He was shaking his ;head like it didn't calculate. "Yeah, I thought it would be spontaneous and fun." ;; He seemed to mull the thought over for a second. ; "Florida?" he asked again. "Yeah," I answered again, a little less confident than the first time.

"We can't go to Florida. We don't have any clothes, or money." "We got our ATM and credit cards. Whatever we don't have, we can buy." He wasn't as excited about the idea as I was. "I don't know," his voice trailed off. "C'mon Adam. This is going to be a great time. We'll get a hotel room by the beach, hang out and get drunk for a few days and then come back. You wanted spontaneous and you got spontaneous. I thought you'd be psyched." I was pleading my case before Adam said to turn around. "Michele is going to flip," he said. "Fuck Michele dude. She may be your girlfriend, but you're my Big and we're going to have an awesome weekend. She can deal with that." "You going to call her and tell her that?" "Not a chance. Tell her I kidnapped and drugged you, and you woke up in Florida." "She'll call the cops," he joked. His mood was lightening. "I'll tell her you want to be a cop," I snapped back. "Is that blackmail, Brother Walsh?" he asked with a smile. "Take it as you want. So what's your deal, are you in you fucking pussy, or what?" I asked, my own confidence growing again. "Give me a minute to think about it," he said as he looked out his side window. "Please say yes, please say yes' I repeated in my head while Adam thought it out. "You know, you're fucking crazy Walsh," Adam said, looking at me, still in disbelief. "You're just figuring that out now?" "No, but it's the icing on the cake.

So what part of Florida were you thinking?" "Daytona Beach. So does this mean you are in?" "Yeah, I'm in," he grinned, still shaking his head at me, "Michele is going to have a cow, but as you said, she'll have to deal with it." "Now that's the Adam I know and love," I said. To Adam, it was just a saying. But the saying resonated in my own ears, love. Yeah, but not really love, in the literal sense, I assured myself, putting the car in drive, gunning the gas and pulling back onto I- 95. Neither of us had cell phones, this was just before the cell phone boom. Next time we needed gas, Adam decided, he would make the phone call to Michele and let her know that we wouldn't be back till Sunday. He wasn't looking forward to the phone call one bit, he told me.

After being solemn for a few minutes, I assume thinking about the phone call to Michele, Adam shifted gears and became completely excited. He had gone to Daytona for Spring Break his sophomore year, so he knew a bunch of fun places to hang out. He started telling me all about that Spring Break and the girls that he had hooked up with. Hearing Adam talk about pussy was making me hard. Nonchalantly, I tucked my growing dick under the seam of my crotch, somewhat hiding it, as Adam continued to tell me about the buxom blonde that he was doing body shots off of all night and later took back to his room.

In North Carolina, the car was finally on E. I pulled into a gas station and Adam almost looked pale. Was he really that afraid of her, I wondered? That would totally suck, not being able to tell your girl that you are hanging out with a bud for a few days. Did she not trust him? "I guess its that time, huh?" he asked, looking at me. "You can wait till the next station, if you want," I suggested. "Nah, I'm sure she's already called the House like 5 times looking for me. No time like the present, compadre," he said as he winked, opened his door and walked into the gas station quick mart. I filled up the car as I watched through the window, Adam pick up the phone and dial. Shit, even I was nervous for him, I could feel it in my own stomach. This is good for him, I assured myself. The snap of the gas handle, indicating that the car was full, woke me out of my trance of observing Adam and his phone conversation with Chele. I was imagining how it was going, hoping for the best. If she's a real bitch about it, she could totally ruin the weekend.

Gas handle back in place, I walked inside to pay for the gas. I handed the cashier my credit card. I couldn't hear the conversation that Adam was having. He wasn't yelling, so I guess that is a good thing. Unless of course, she is doing all the yelling on the other side of the phone. As I signed my name to the receipt, I debated walking over there to see how it was going. But I decided against it, best to leave him be. He was by the bathroom, and although I had to go, I could wait till we stopped at Burger King for something to eat. I stretched a little before getting back in the car. It was a few minutes before Adam was done with Michele. My eyes followed him as he hung up the phone, walked out of the station, came up to the car, opened the door and hopped in. "That didn't go so well," he said as he closed the car door. "No?" I asked. "Not at all. She totally flipped, talking about responsibility, immaturity and how I always put her second to my Brothers and the Fraternity. She said if I wasn't back by midnight, we were done." "Shit, really?"

I felt bad. I knew she was going to take this bad, but not this bad. I certainly didn't think they would break up over this. But on some level, I was jumping up and down inside. "Yeah," Adam said looking into his lap. "Should we go back then?" I asked. "Nah, fuck her." "You sure Adam? We can go back, I totally understand." "No, I'm sick of that shit. She's always threatening to break up with me over the stupidest shit. I'm just going to let her wallow in her own misery till Sunday, teach her a lesson." "So you're breaking up with her?" "No, there's no way she'd break up with me. She just likes to make my life hell when I'm not doing exactly what she wants. I'll have to deal with the cold shoulder for a week or so, but  she'll get over it." "You sure?" "Yeah man, I'm not going to let that bitch ruin our good time," he said while chuckling.

"You hungry," he asked, changing the subject, "Because I'm starving?" "Burger King?" "Sounds good," Adam replied. We got our food to go and switched, so that Adam took a turn at driving. Being winter, it was dark already and we had another 8 hours or so to go. We passed the time by talking and joking the entire way. Michele's name didn't come up at all, and I was glad about that. I didn't want him harping on the subject.

Moving this along, we drove all night and finally got to Daytona at like 6 AM Thursday morning. I had slept a little while, and now I was back to driving while Adam slept. Trying to save some money, I picked one of the Motels on the beach, instead of one of the more expensive name hotels. I pulled into the parking lot and found a spot. I thought that Adam would wake up, but he didn't. He must have been exhausted. I looked at him for a moment, eyes closed, his mouth open and breathing heavy. Stubble breaking through his skin. He was fucking hot alright. He was right, Michele would never break up with him. How could she ever leave such an awesome guy? I figured I would let Adam sleep. No use in getting him up till I knew the place had a vacancy. I stepped into the cool morning air, the sun not quite up and the smell of the ocean in the air. I stretched hard, realizing just how tired I was. I didn't want to get back in the car, please let the place have a
 room.

I walked around the front of the place and looked in the window of the guest house, hoping that the place wasn't closed. I saw a TV on and was glad to see that they were open. I opened the door and a buzzer went off, alerting whoever was on duty that there was a guest present. I stood at the counter a minute or so till an older looking gentleman came around from the back someplace. "Good morning," he said, cheery eyed for six in the morning. "Good morning," I said back with what energy I had. "Do you have a reservation?" he asked. "No, I don't. Do you have any vacancy?" "Sure do, we don't get busy down here for another couple of weeks when Bike week and Spring Break start up." "How much are the rooms?" I asked. The old guy pointed to a board against the wall to his left. I read what it said. Standard rooms, $79 a night for single occupancy, $99 for double and $129 for a family. Rooms facing the beach are $109 a night for single occupancy, $129 for double and $159 for a family." "Sounds like a pretty good deal to me," I said. "Still off season, though its supposed to get pretty warm this weekend, so you should luck out with the weather. How many nights you staying?" "Probably check out Sunday morning," I answered. "Just you in the room?" he asked. Looking at the board, I thought I would save us a few dollars and answered, "Yeah, just me."

"Young lad like you should have no problem finding a pretty lady to share the bed with," he said, typing the keyboard of a computer. Reviewing something on the screen, he added, "I have a room facing the beach, has a patio. You want it?" "Sure," I said, laughing a little at the old dude. Why do old people often hint at sex with young people? Maybe they like to think they were young again and getting some. "I'll need a credit card and license, please," he requested. As we took care of the paperwork, the guy told me there was an outdoor pool in the back and a hot tub. The pool is not heated, so it's a little chilly he warned. He handed me a key and told me to pull all the way to the back to unload the car, top floor, room 217. I thanked the guy, took the key and left the office. The sun was almost up at this point. I got back in the car and Adam was still snoozing away. I didn't have far to move the car. I would have left it where it was, actually since we didn't have any bags. But I didn't want the old guy to see Adam get out of the car. Back a little further, we would be out of his view. In another parking spot by the stairs, it was time to get Adam up. Instead of just calling his name, I put my hand on his leg, high up on his thigh, almost at his crotch. I had to touch him after being this close to him for so many hours. Shaking his leg, enjoying the feel of his meaty legs, I said his name. He was sleeping pretty deeply, and I was able to get another few seconds of leg before he stirred.

"We're here," I said, removing my hand before he opened his eyes. "Really, awesome," he responded, taking a second to wake himself, opening his eyes and lifting his head. I got out of the car, walking around to Adam's side and opened the door for him. Cracking his neck, he slowly stepped out of the car. "Damn, it's chilly," he said, standing up. Like me, he had on a T- Shirt and jeans. We had been wearing sweaters and jackets back home, but we shed those off in the car. Adam gave a huge stretch, raising his hands to the shy. As he did so, his t-shirt lifted, revealing his lower stomach and belly button, treasure trail coming out from under his jeans. I was sleepy, but my dick was awake. At the site of Adam's skin, my dick lengthened. This was going to be a difficult weekend. I was going to have to pull one off and get rid of some of my horniness, cause Adam was making me horny as hell. "Yeah," I replied, taking my eyes off of Adam's hard stomach and
 looking at the sky. "Guy at the front desk said it was supposed to warm up, so hopefully we'll be able to use the beach some." "I hope so," Adam said, "Otherwise, we're going to be doing a lot of drinking." He was looking more awake. "What do you mean, ¡¥otherwise', we'll definitely be doing a lot of drinking either way." "I knew you'd say that."

"Let's get to the room and catch some Z's, I'm exhausted from driving." We grabbed our sweaters and jackets and walked up the stairs to the room. We came upon room 217 and I opened the door. The room was on the smaller side, bathroom to the left and then a small closet. Stepping further into the room, there was a couple of dressers, a wicker love seat and only one king sized bed. Adam noticed that as well and said, "There's only one bed." "Damn, I said single occupancy to save a couple of dollars, but I still thought there would be two beds," I explained. "Huh?" I told Adam about the prices on the board and how I thought I could save about 30 dollars a night. But I thought that they were charging by the number of people, not the number of beds. I assumed that there would still be two beds. And for you, the readers, really, I did think just that. This wasn't a plan of mine at all, although I was completely content with the way this had turned out. Unless, of course, Adam wanted to get another room, which I had to offer. "Later today, when the guy who checked me in is gone, we can get another room with two beds," I suggested. "That's cool, whatever," Adam said as he walked past the bed to a set of sliding glass windows covered with drapes.

 I followed him to the doors as he pulled the drapes open. The doors led to a small porch over looking the beach and the ocean. Directly below us was the pool and hot tub. "Nice view," Adam said, stepping out to the porch, waves crashing the only sound in the early morning peace. The porch has a table, umbrella and set of patio chairs on it. "Yeah, beautiful," I replied looking to the left and the right, endless miles of empty beach and water visible in every direction. "Well, I'm going to try and catch a few hours of sleep so I don't sleep the entire day away tomorrow," I said. "No man, don't crash yet. The sun is about to rise, sit on the porch with me and watch it come up," he offered. "OK, good idea." As exhausted as I was, how could I say no to such a thing. And so Adam and I sat on the porch, chair next to chair, watching the horizon as the sun came up. It was a spectacular sunrise, bringing in the new day. I watched Adam as much as I did the sun, his handsome face staring out to sea as the sun came above the water line. As I was looking at him, he turned and looked at me. "Nice, huh," he said with a big smile. "Beautiful," I answered, but I wasn't talking about the sun. I needed to get to bed before I did something stupid in my grogginess. After watching for another couple of minutes, my eyes began to close. "Adam, I can't keep my eyes open, I need to get some sleep." "Go ahead," he said, "I'm going to sit here a little while longer." "You can have the bed, I'll crash on the floor," I suggested. "Nah Bro, you did most of the driving, you take the bed. I'll crash on the floor." "You sure?" "Yeah." "OK, thanks," I said. I turned to go into the room, but stopped.

Looking at Adam over my right shoulder, I added. "You can get in the bed too, if the floor's like totally uncomfortable or something. It's not like this is the first bed that we shared." It was awkward, the way it came out, but I felt oddly comfortable offering Adam to share the bed with me. "Cool," was all that Adam responded. The room was a little chilly, so I left my t-shirt, pants and socks on. I pulled down the covers and got in bed. After all that driving, the bed felt amazing. I was excited about the three days that Adam and I would be spending together, just the two of us. And that is what I was thinking about as I fell asleep. Some hours later, I heard the door to the room close, waking me. I opened my eyes and came upon the alarm clock. 12:37 the alarm clock read. I looked around the room trying to identify what the noise that woke me up was. Adam was standing by the dresser with a bunch of bags in his hand. "Hey Adam," I said, sitting up in
 bed and rubbing my eyes. "The zombie is awake," Adam answered. "Yeah, you sleep at all?" "I fell asleep for a couple of hours, then ran out and picked up some stuff for us." "Stuff?" "Yeah, toiletries and shit. I  picked up some clothes too." "Nice. How is it out there?" "It's nice, sunny, like 70 degrees. Not hot, but a lot warmer than home." "Warm enough to use the beach?" "I think so, yeah. I don't know about going in the water, but I guess we'll see. I'm going to jump in the shower. I got some coffee too, I know how you need your coffee in the morning." Adam knows me all too well from sleeping over the House after parties. I can't get myself moving till I get come caffeine in me.

"Damn man, you're on the ball, thanks." "No problem," he said and went into the bathroom. Before getting out of bed, I noticed that the other side of the bed had been slept in. When I had got in the bed, I only pulled the covers of my side, the other side still made. But now the sheets were tossed and the pillows shifted. So Adam had slept in the bed. No big deal, but it was nice to know that Adam had slept next to me. I got out of bed and grabbed my coffee. After a few sips, it hit me. Shit, I got to call Evan. He's probably freaking out. I went to the phone and dialed our number. He was probably in the Student Center, but I'd leave him a message. I did get the machine. "Evan, hey, it's John. Listen man, I'm in Florida with Adam. We just started driving, like a spontaneous thing, and we ended up here. We should be back on Sunday, but I'll try and catch up with you later. Tell Matt for me. And if my parents call, don't tell them I am in Florida, just tell them I am out. Laters man."

I went through the bags that Adam brought back. The boy went to town. He bought two bathing suits, 4 surfer shirts, two pairs of flip flops, and two beach towels for the day. He also purchased clothes to wear at night, a couple of Khaki shorts and nicer t- shirts. A few minutes later, Adam came out of the bathroom, towel wrapped around his waist. I was sitting on the wicker couch, drinking my coffee and looking out the patio doors. "Shower was awesome," Adam said as pulled the clothes out of the bag. "Yeah?" I asked, checking him out nonchalantly as lay the clothes out on the bed. "Hot shower felt good after being in the car for so long. You see the clothes I got?" "I did, nice job." "I figured we're about the same size, so hope they fit you." Adam was standing facing the bed, and I was kind of behind him. He dropped his towel, exposing his naked ass to me.

Running the Lacrosse field gave Adam a hard, firm ass. It was basically smooth, but you could see that he had some dark hairs between the crack of his ass when he shifted weight on his legs. The sight of which made my dick start to go hard. I watched quietly as Adam pulled the tags off of one of the bathing suits, tossing them on the bed. He turned and faced me and I could see his manhood. I looked for a second, but quickly averted my eyes. It was hardly the fist time I had seen Adam naked, but it always had the same effect on me, instant erection. "I'm going to wear these ones, is that alright?" he asked, holding the shorts up. "Yeah, you bought them, you wear what you want," I responded. He was holding them just above waist level, so I could look at them and his dick at the same time. His dick was full and hanging at about 4 inches, surrounded by a nice bush of light brown pubic hair. "OK, I want," he said, bending down and stepping into them. I watched the nylon shorts slide up his legs. I had to jump in the shower and cool down. "I guess I'll jump in the shower now," I said as Adam stuffed his dick and balls comfortably in the shorts and tied the string of the waistband. "Hurry up so we can hit the beach," he responded.

I made my way into the bathroom, stripped and got in the shower. I turned on the water. My dick was bone hard. I was fucking horny. I grabbed the soap and started lathering my chest as the shower sprayed on my shoulders. I soaped up my crotch, massaged my erection. It felt damn good. I needed to jerk off so that I wasn't throwing wood all day. I typically jerk off at least once a day, usually twice, and spending the entire day in the car yesterday, I hadn't had the opportunity at all. I closed my eyes as I continued to stroke my soap lubed dick. I imagined Adam's ass that I just saw a few minutes ago. In my mind, I got up off the wicker couch and stepped behind Adam. I pushed Adam on the bed, chest down, so that his ass was sticking up in the air towards me. I pulled my own pants down as I rubbed my hand up and down his exposed furry crack. As this scene ran through my head, I began quickening up the pace of my strokes. It was only going to take another 30 seconds before I was shooting all over the shower wall. Getting right to it, in my fantasy, I spread Adam ass cheeks, revealing his pucker. It quivered, inviting me to stick my ultra hard cock up his ass. Adam didn't fight me at all. He wanted to be fucked real bad. "Do it, Walsh," he begged, "I want to feel your dick in my ass.' I gave him what he wanted and drove my shaft right in. Adam moaned like a mad man, but kept his ass high, hungry for more. I started with a rapid pace, Adam grabbing the sheets with his fists at the pleasure pounding I was giving him. Meanwhile, I started fucking my fist in the shower, not stroking, but pushing my slippery dick in and out of my hand with my hips. It wouldn't be long, just a few more thrusts. I felt my dick getting bigger in my fist, expanding at the impending orgasm. I couldn't wait to cum.

"Walsh, you mind if I shave while you shower?" "What?" I asked, suddenly aware that Adam was in the bathroom with me. I immediately stopped stroking, caught off guard. My balls screamed: "No! We're fucking there, a few more strokes." "I want to shave so I can get some color, is that cool?" "Ah, yeah, it's cool." "Thanks," he responded and I heard him turn the water in the sink on. Instead of going down, my dick seemed to get harder now that Adam was in the room and my desire to finish jerking off only grew. Should I? The nasty part of me said: "Hell, yeah. Jerk off while Adam is in the room, that's fucking hot." So I did. I kept my strokes at a non-audible pace, jerking off knowing that Adam was only a few steps away from me, shaving, bare-chested and wearing only a bathing suit.

Back to fucking Adam in my mind, I had flipped Adam over on the bed, so I could see the lust on his face as I pistoned into him. He was biting his lower lip, the muscles of his chest jiggling with the motion of our penetration. Adam started jerking his own hard dick as I drove into him, rubbing his prostate, and he spewed like a geyser. That scene, in my mind, caused me to start shooting in the shower. My legs gave a little and I was light headed as shot after shot of hot jism left my cock. I kept my breathing low so that Adam couldn't hear me. The orgasm was intense and my body shuddered as the warm water ran over my body and swollen dick. Fuck, I wish every jerk off orgasm was like that, it was almost as good as the real thing. And I'm sure that Adam being right there had a big thing to do with that. As my bliss subsided, I began to feel a little guilty. The silence in the bathroom only seemed to add to my guilt, so I started a conversation with Adam as I finished soaping the rest of my body and my dick deflated. "We should grab something to eat and bring to the beach. I just realized how hungry I am," I suggested. "Sounds good to me," Adam responded.

**** We had a good time at the beach. It was empty, so it must have been evident that we were tourists. It was a nice day, but not nice enough for the locals to hit the beach. Which was fine with me, I wanted the
time with Adam. We pretty much lounged on our towels just talking. We put our feet in the water, but it was definitely too cold to go swimming. Around 4 o'clock, the wind picked up and the beach became chilly. So we picked up our stuff and headed back to the room. On the way, we picked up a bottle of vodka, some orange juice, beer and a deck of cards. Back in the room, we watched some TV and started drinking, which is exactly what I would be doing in the dorms. We played cards for a couple of hours, having a good time. "I must say Adam, I'm very impressed," I said at one point. "At what?" "That you haven't spoken about or called Michele all day."

"I thought about it, but figure, what the hell, if she said we'd break up over this, then we're broken up till I get back." "That's might brave of you bud, or is that the booze speaking?" "90% booze," he said with a smile, "10% bravery." "Well, if you're broken up, does that mean that you will be on the prowl tonight?" Adam chuckled, "I don't know about that."

**** We showered and got dressed and figured we would walk the strip and see if anything was doing. Much like the beach, the bars were empty. But we were kind of expecting that. We were in and out a couple of different places, having a drink at each one. We were at this one bar and asked the bartender where a good place to go was. He said that there was pretty much nothing going on, but on Thursdays a lot of the locals went to one of the hotel bars for Karaoke. Friday was a little hotter than Thursday, so we hit the beach. We walked along the beach to a promenade that was in front of one of the hotels. There was a Fat Tuesday's bar on the beach with some people hanging out, so we decided that we would hang out there for awhile.

The Reggae Band. After having a few drinks we went back to the room. "Dude, let's use the hot tub," Adam suggested. "We can do that. Bring a couple of beers, maybe light a joint up if there is no one out there." "Walsh, there isn't going to be anyone out there."

Adam and I wind up getting really fucked up one night while in FL (after you read the chapter, this will make sense), and fucking. It started off innocently, lying bed. Two horny guys. A touch of the leg, restlessness, one thing led to another, and it ended with Adam fucking me. Adam was an engaged partner, exploring my dody with his hands and he even tried sucking on my dick, though it only lasted a couple of minutes. But we fucked for like a half hour before he came. It was an amazing experience for me, something that I had been thinking about and wanting for a long time. A fantasy come true. But in reality, fantasies don't come true.

We fell asleep, and the next morning wasn't good. When I woke up, Adam wasn't in bed. He was outside on the deck, pacing back and forth. I could tell from the look on his face when he saw that I was standing at the door that there would be no good morning kiss. He was very apologetic, "we never should have done that." After briefly talking about it, we tried to hit the beach. But eventually, after a whole lot of silence, Adam said that he felt like going home. So we hopped back into my car for 16 hours of silence between us. I was so afraid to say anything. I could feel our friendship slipping away. And I thought if we discussed it, in the confines of a car, it would only hurt the situation more. Better to leave it and talk about it tomorrow, after Adam has had some alone time. We had quick conversations in the car, but nothing of magnitude. And after that, things were never quite the same between Adam and I. We discussed what happened, but not really.
 Just "it can never happen again, and we can't tell anyone."

Adam's silence on the issue was enough for me to figure out what was going on. He was full of guilt. I think he really liked it, I know he liked from the look on his face and the moans as we fucked, but was ready to propose to Michele, ready to graduate, and this sort of confusion was the last thing that he needed. And me, I represented that confusion, perhaps a deep, hidden, pushed back feeling that Adam has always know about himself. That he was attarcted to boys and girls. I cried a lot over it actually. He stopped calling me regularly, converations in the student center and parties was colder than it was before, and he started spending a lot more time with Michele. By the time he graduated, we were getting closer to the way things were. But distance doesn't help. I went to his graduation, we hugged good bye. I'll be around he said. But knowing Michele, he wouldn't be around that much. I did see him here and again. We didn't speak on the phone too much.

Adam eventually married Michele. I was at their wedding. Adam became a NJ State Trooper and lives at the Jersey Shore. No children yet, that I am aware of. Since moving to GA, I haven't spoken or seen Adam in probably close to a year. Time heals, but life moves on.

Next semester I was pledge master, and was busier than hell. The younger generation was moving up in the ranks of the fraternity, and although I thought of Adam frequently, I had a lot going on, and my life was about to change drastically... To be continued.

["To be continued" he said...but he has yet to post anything new in more than seven years.]

She says/He says: Married Bisexual Men and Open Marriages

In the Win-Win for Struggling Bisexual Married Men, I outlined a method that discontented closeted men can use to find inner peace.  If implemented as described, a full range of outcomes are possible; one of those is a wife who cherishes her bisexual husband and their open marriage.

Recently, a straight wife read the Win-Win and left a scathing comment about how selfish, narcissistic, and untrustworthy married bisexual men are.  Her comment deserves a quality reply, not only because she's in pain and wants answers, but also because the things she says epitomize many straight wives' feelings and fears about their bisexual husbands.

In an effort to provide the woman a helpful response, I asked a bunch of men who are bi or gay and in open straight marriages to reply to what she says.  I specifically asked them to focus on why they felt their open marriage was fair to their wives.  A handful of the most interesting replies are below.    One guy answered her point-by-point, which made for a very long reply, so I've included that as a separate comment.

She says: Married Bisexual Men and Open Marriages

What percentage of women, married to formerly closeted men, are openly happy with their lives after their world is torn apart by the proposition of an open marriage? You know of some. What is the ratio? I doubt it breaks into the double digits and not without struggling and trying it "his" way. Do you read sites where women are devistated or do you stick with sites that bolster the selfishness of bi- men to be happy at the expense of their wives?

The other bi-men's blogs I have read pull out what I see as a "poor me, I deserve special treatment" card, like a bi- form of affirmative action. Does being bi- go hand-in-hand with narcissism? How about recklessness? Selfishness?

Fear of abandonment is another excuse. Don't tell cause she won't like it... She might leave or, for the cheaters, also catch on to that lovely aspect. But heaven forbid the wife faced with the news that her husband likes boys feel that same fear of abandonment. She isn't supportive or understanding rather than the truly devistated person she actually is. So does bi- also come with a lack of empathy?

There is no win-win. It is a lie bi- men tell themselves to be able to live with their CHOICES.

From most of what I have read, bi men are far more likely to cheat than not, and to gaslight their wives, which is cruelty beyond measure. Spending a year trying to rebuild something that was never strong due to lies that destroy trust is like the guy who has a GF going to marriage counseling just so he can say he tried. Yet he never stops seeing his affair partner so his trying is a sham and another brick in the wall of manipulation and self-delusion.

If the bi- man continues to see other men there is no real effort to connect.

You married with all of the info. You spoke the words. Honor them or accept that you aren't bi. You are a person without regard for others who just happens to be bi.

Nothing on any of these forums makes me feel ok about being married to a bi man. Notorious liars. Understandable reason. Unacceptable behavior. All a choice, not imposed by external factors but instead acted upon by flawed integrity.

I love my husband but if he cannot honor the vows we made, he will find himself divorced. He has always lied. As far as I am aware, never acted on his attraction to men. We play at home. I will always feel inadequate even though I get turned on and have fun. I love real penises so why wouldn't he? I get it. But if it goes farther than just us, it is over. I didn't sign up for this. BUT HE DID.

That's the biggest difference.

And yes I am upset. I have no idea how this will work out in the end. My husband is struggling. I am, too. I want him to be happy. But if that requires extramarital forays, he can't be happy with me and therefore I can't be happy with him.

The just sex argument I hear so often is another point of contention with me. Why do bi men love anonymous or non-invested sex so much? Afraid of intimacy on both sides of the fence? Seems like it. Dear wife - with you it is love but with him it is just sex. Is anything truly sacred that is treated like spitting on the ground? Treating him like an object, how does that make bi men endearing to their wives or anyone for that matter? I'm just using him. But you are special...

Bi men have problems coming to terms for sure. But most of the real problems they face are of their own making.

Own your sh*t. Stop asking everyone else to accept what you yourselves could not accept. We haven't had the years you have had to get your head around it. All of the sudden you are willing to "share" and we are supposed to be right there beside you.

We always wondered what was wrong, blamed ourselves. You knew what it was. Not freaking fair. Not even close.

Open marriage? Many of you have already had one. Just not BI LATERAL.

Get your heads out of your asses and accept the damage you've caused and stop inflicting yet more pain.

And get some psychological help for the shitty way you treat people. That's where you really need to focus. Stop thinking with your dicks. Grow up. Become decent human beings in all facets of your lives.

I would say this to anyone who behaves this way.

Using bisexuality as an excuse is pitiful.

He says: Married Bisexual Men and Open Marriages

Man One

My wife is the opposite of this woman.  She is genuinely happy that I am happy, which results in us being happy together.  

My coming out was a challenge but it didn't rock our marriage to the core. Our struggle was simply to help each other find a pathway to success. Our marriage evolved from “you are NOT having sex with men” to a marriage were my relationships with men are just sexual enough to keep both my wife and myself happy. 

I never pressured her to support me, especially at her expense.  My wife is a strong woman and there is nothing she does that she doesn't truly want to do.  My liaisons don't rip her heart out.  They are met with joy and mutual happiness because the resulting happiness around the house when I return makes both our lives together so much happier.  My wife learned this through experience, that's what baby steps are all about.  “If a little is good, more must be better” until we found the perfect mix.    

Those who make it to happy MOM are the exception, but for those of us who do, it’s worth it.  I personally believe the greatest challenge is knowing when to cut your losses and move on. If the ship is sinking why should you both go down with it? I don't believe it's narcissism to save my own ass if others are not willing to save their own.

Man Two

I think an aspect of the perceived invisibility of happy open marriages is that people who are happy with things are less likely to complain. In the first 2 or 3 years, my wife and I both were enthusiastic posters on various support sites while we struggled with our issues.  We started out participating in 3 or more groups: HUGS, MMOM, SSML, and another that dried up.  We quickly fled SSML where gay husbands were allowed to participate but weren't really welcome.  We left MMOM after we became non-monogamous.  HUGS was a mainstay.  It provided so much critical support for us for a long time, but now, while we participate in conversations there, we don't really have issues to raise so we might seem to be invisible.

My wife never joined Alternate Path because she has no need or time for it, as good a group as it may be.  The very fact that she can be outspoken about our MOM but is not on AP speaks to the fact that she has nothing to be unhappy about.

And though I have been out to her for nearly 11 years, I only joined this group less than 2 years ago when I was between CLRs and wanted some of the camaraderie offered here.   Beyond that, I would say I didn't/don't need the support per se.  Our MOM is a well-oiled machine ... it hits rougher patches like when I was between CLRs but operated very well in getting us through that, and sails along best on the CLR road.

Man Three

My wife and I just celebrated our 33rd anniversary.  It's been 18 years since I came out.  While the first couple of years were definitely rocky, I know I speak for both of us when I say we are happier now than at any point in our marriage.  Both of us have evolved and I think with the passing of time, my wife has become more secure. I think her initial fear was that even though we had made a decision to stay married, she was concerned that at some point I would meet a guy who would sweep me off my feet and make me want to leave. We discussed this a lot in the beginning, because we both felt that if I was going to leave, it would be better while we were both relatively young. But neither of us wanted that and with each successive boyfriend she has learned that I'm not going anywhere.  Someone else summed it up really well:  There is no one else I would rather spend the rest of my life with. 

Man Four

Following the first couple of emotionally chaotic weeks post-disclosure, my wife and I realized we needed some sort of "operating agreement" even though we did not know where our future would take us.  That agreement included monogamy until otherwise agreed.  I very strongly wanted to remain together with my wife, and we couldn't see how non-monogamy would work, so I readily agreed to this "monogamy until" condition.  At the same time, my wife insisted we provide an escape valve:  if monogamy became untenable for me, then we would discuss how to deal with it, rather than me either going on the down-low or going back into the quasi-depression I had been in before disclosure.

I never had to use the escape valve.  The years that followed were so full of exciting personal development in many dimensions, that I was completely occupied by all that without being impatient for m2m sex.  Those dimensions included:

•     developing a much higher degree of emotional intimacy and communication with my wife
•     enjoying a renaissance of our marital sex life
•     coming out in stages to more and more friends, family, and colleagues
•     developing a social network of gay friends
•     connecting to my local gay community generally, and to national equality and pride movements
•     connecting with MOM friends on line and in person
•     experimenting with some gay-related sex play with my wife
•     using porn with permission, without guilt, and in moderation
•     generally, developing my new gay "identity" without it being mixed up with the complications of gay sex, if that makes any sense.

My wife fully supported -- no, rather she helped push -- this re-envisioning of my identity in ways that included two key goals:  authenticity and integrity.  It also included fidelity, with the meaning that we understood at that time.  This whole monogamy period was an amazingly rich and valuable time.

Some time in the third year, when things had become very calm and loving for us, my wife had what she calls her "paradigm shift" which included at least two aspects:

(1) From the experiences of friends, she realized that a "side relationship" can in some cases be beneficial for marital stability, rather than destructive (even for straight people);

(2) She explicitly decided that given we were in a MOM, she wanted the next few decades to be a life built on generosity not fear, and abundance not scarcity.

On that basis she is the one who suggested I explore a Closed-Loop Relationship (CLR), with a MOM couple we had already known for a couple of years.  That led to a great 6-year relationship for me, and contributed to the stability and satisfaction our marriage gave us, and certainly provided a foundation for confidence about our future that helped us even when that CLR ended in 2011.

So, I realize that my case does not involve "long-term post-disclosure monogamy," but I think it does give an example of the possible value of committing to monogamy in at least a provisional (possibly indefinite) way, putting aside the fretful part of it and focusing on all sorts of other opportunities that may be offered.

In taking a second look at my bulleted list above, of all the great things that helped me develop as a gay man while monogamous, I was struck by the (not surprising) fact that they all would have been impossible if I had not been allowed to be open and affirming of my orientation both within my marriage and home, and/or in my community.  I expect I would have been very much more "itchy" for gay sex as a private or secret expression of my sexuality, if I had not had all these other modes of shared or public expression for it.  I am sure my wife, an exceptionally smart and insightful person, recognized that from near the start.

Man Five

I have been with my wife for 14 years and we have been open (mostly in theory rather than practice) for almost 4. Just recently my wife and I were sitting in the living room and she mentioned, sort of thinking aloud, while knitting, that she wished I could find a nice guy. This was out of the blue and unexpected, but welcome as it showed to me that it was something that she was so comfortable with that it was just a random thought floating around her mind, not weighed down by doubt or worry.

Now, I have to say that none of us can ever know for sure how our wives feel. We are not in their heads, never can be, and, frankly, I wouldn't want to be. All I have to go on is what she tells me and what I observe, which are both flawed since she could be fooling herself and by extension me as well, but it's all we have to work with and both have been pretty positive.

We briefly talked about this last night, and she got a bit annoyed since I have worried greatly about this in the past (yep, this narcissistic, reckless, selfish guy has been so concerned about the impact on my wife that she's tired of reassuring me that she's fine and dandy). If she were to paint her perfect world would it include me having sex with other men? No. But we don't get to paint our perfect world, do we? In my perfect world my wife wouldn't snore so much and cause me to lose sleep? Hell no. But when she offers to sleep in another room I just smile and tell her I won't hear of it. This isn't a perfect analogy, but my point is that living together is a balancing act which will never be perfect. We are who we are, but are also constantly changing, and the balancing act always needs adjustment to keep things going.

Man Six

I am peripherally involved in organizing a nude yoga/body electric weekend in my little community.  Because some of the participants are coming from several hundred miles away, I am hosting five of them at my house and am making dinner for the whole group on Saturday night.  When I discussed this with my wife, she smiled and said she would spend the weekend out of town with our daughter.

I mention this to demonstrate how far the gay thing and our open marriage have evolved for us.  When I came out eight years ago we went through a year or more of emotional roller coaster hell.  Initially, my wife was adamant that if I continued to have sex with men, our marriage would end.  Within a year, that gave way to a don't ask, don' t tell situation which, very recently, has moved light years ahead to where we are very happily enjoying a truly open marriage.

I think the main reason our marriage has lasted so long, post coming out, is that we allowed it to evolve - had either of us, taken an immovable stance, we could not have succeeded.  Another major factor is that our marriage was fairly strong in the first place.  Had we been in rough seas when I came out I believe the gay thing surely would have dashed us onto the rocks.  The third major factor was that my wife was very respectful and accepting of the gay thing - she never showed me anything less than respect, no matter how bad things got words like queer or fag were never tossed about.

Up until a couple of years ago, my wife presented me with a big bouquet of flowers every year on the anniversary of my coming out - she was grateful that she got me back from the cave that I dragged myself into several years ago.  I'm relating all of this, because I want to demonstrate that if the marriage is reasonably strong to begin with, a good counselor, patience, and time, along with mutual respect, a successful MOM can be created.

My thoughts on open marriage for mixed orientation couples

Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of mixed orientation marriages (MOMs).  I'm somewhat optimistic about them if the couple is older and neither spouse has much hope or interest in finding another life partner. I'm also modestly optimistic about them if the couple communicates well and all the cards are on the table, including an agreement to be monogamous or not.  However, as soon as honesty and good communication end, then I'm very negative.  

Lies are a doomed attempt to create an alternate reality.  Anytime a spouse feels the need to repeatedly lie about who they are or how they live their life, they're moving the deck furniture around on the Titanic.  Lies temporarily hide awkward situations but they don't change the fundamental situation.  When a couple is truly happy with each other, and have a good relationship, then they're able to communicate honestly.  When they lie, they're doing so because they already know they're on a risky voyage, but they want to pretend that nothing bad will ever happen.

Would I advise a straight wife to seriously consider her bisexual or gay husband's request to open their marriage?  

Surprisingly, I would, even though I don't think most MOMs are a good idea.  

A request to open up a marriage is plea to communicate honestly.  When a straight wife says she's willing to consider the possibility of an open marriage, then, and perhaps only then, can the couple start to truthfully share what their deepest thoughts, needs and fears are.  And when that kind of communication happens, wives can start to feel less threatened and husbands more loyal.

The biggest mistake men make when they ask for an open marriage is doing so too soon after disclosing their same-sex attraction.  Once a husband's hidden sexuality is revealed, many wives fall into a deep depression where they question the authenticity, trust and love in their marriage.  It takes time and dedication on the husband's part to rebuild authentic trust.  Until that happens, why would a depressed wife grant permission to her husband to have sex with men?  She wouldn't.  

Ultimately, what the Win-Win does is build trust and confidence in the marital bond. And in those situations where trust cannot be built, that fact soon becomes obvious to both partners.  Either way, doubt is removed and the best path for the couple becomes clear, whether it's monogamy, an open marriage, or dissolution.

Please share your thoughts about opening up a mixed orientation marriage in the comment box below.

"Fraternity Memoirs" - The Unpublished Finale

In a prior post I wrote about my favorite Internet story, Fraternity Memoirs.  It's a mostly-true tale about a college freshman and his crazy sexual experiences when he pledged a fraternity in the mid-'90s.  Written under the pen name of "John Walsh", the story has become a time-tested classic.  Although the last chapter was published in 2003, fans continue to scour the Internet on a daily basis hoping to find new installments.

When I wrote about Fraternity Memoirs recently, at least two younger bloggers checked it out and found themselves loving it too.  The story really is captivating, not only because of the very hot sex, but also because of the people involved.  They're real and the more you read, the more you want to know about them and what happens next.

Another reason Fraternity Memoirs has been so enduring is because it ends with a cliff-hanger: "to be continued..."  Only it never does!  The author, Walsh, had been posting new installments every few weeks and then, boom, he stopped writing without warning.  He had a huge number of fans, many of whom were severely disappointed that he wanted to retire.  For months they badgered him to publish a final installment and provide closure for the story and the characters.  Eventually he gave in.  Sort of.

Five months after publishing his last installment, Walsh agreed to be the "guest author" on an Internet chat session where he promised to finish the story.  The session was to be Walsh's big finale.  He wanted to take a bow and disappear, which is exactly what he did.

Because of the recent questions I received about Fraternity Memoirs, I decided to do some digging to see if I could find a log of Walsh's final chat session, and luckily, I found it!

The original log is very long and convoluted because it contains comments and channel notices of more than 50 participants in addition to Walsh.  To cut the length and make Walsh's story easier to follow, I have done some substantial editing. I've deleted most of the channel "noise" and rearranged a few sections to make the conversation flow more logically.  I could have edited it even more aggressively, and shared only the essential facts, but I kept a few of Walsh's funny exchanges because they make him real, which is very important because he's the hero of the story.

There are 23 published chapters of Fraternity Memoirs.  Most guys are hooked after the first installment, but trust me, they get hotter and more addictive from there.  Because I'm posting Walsh's *almost* final words below, I STRONGLY suggest that anyone who is curious about the story check it out before reading the log.  You can read all 23 installments HERE.

You might now be asking, "What's up with you saying that these are *almost* Walsh's final words?"

Well...thanks to a reader's comment below, I was able to find the extremely elusive three-part update he provided in June of 2006, more than two years after what he said below.  Although those truly were his final words about the story, the events he describes mostly take place BEFORE what he talks about below.  For that reason, if you want to read his story in chronological order, you should read THIS first, then read the chat log below.

Because Walsh has stopped by this blog at least once, I need to say: John, please let me know if you'd like anything below changed or removed.

Welcome to #niftywriters - In Honor of JustinCase our founder - Friend and Mentor (1956-2003)
Welcome Guest Author John Walsh on Saturday April 18 2004, 8 to 10 pm EDT

[John_e] Lots of people here already, huh?
[John_e] there is no OTHER "John Walsh"
[John_e] Though that's not really my name
[John_e] so I can't complain
[John_e] Like Leonardo, "I'm King of the world"
[John_e] or King of this room at least, for two hours...
[kip] lol

[kip] Welcome to nifty writers, it is my pleasure to welcome John Walsh our guest author of the classic Fraternity Memoirs

[kip] John how did you discover Nifty?
[John_e] Hmmm
[John_e] I was in Atlanta
[John_e] lonely
[John_e] horny
[John_e] and just hit it in a porn search
[Randu] how long ago was that?
[John_e] I moved to Atlanta without knowing anyone
[John_e] end of 99
[John_e] I moved because of a job, I got transferred down there

[kip] what started you or inspired you to write?
[John_e] I read like all the stories in a month ;)
[John_e] and stories just started to suck
[John_e] and no new good ones
[John_e] and I was complaining to the screen
[John_e] and then I was like well, like the pot calling the kettle black
[John_e] you haven't written anything
[John_e] so I started writing my story
[John_e] and as they say, the rest is history
[John_e] I had no idea, three years later, here I'd be

[kip] do you consider it to be autobiographical?
[John_e] yes, autobiographical
[John_e] about 80% of it true

[topcat_msu] what were you hoping to accomplish for yourself by writing the story...meaning, it had to be therapeutic in a way...were there reasons for going back in time?
[John_e] my intent was never to get into as much as I did
[John_e] it was going to be 3 or 4 chapters
[John_e] all sex (I hated story stories, I was at Nifty to get off)
[John_e] but when I sat down to write the first chapter
[John_e] I wrote 40 pages and no sex
[John_e] so I posted it and was like next chapter, all sex, I even said so at the end of the first chapter
[John_e] then another chapter, no sex
[John_e] My mind just started down memory lane
[John_e] I loved looking back and reliving, and it became a self journey
[John_e] it was therapeutic as there was a dark place in my mind, I don't look back often, and the story came out of that

[blah] John, can you talk a little about the special connection you often mentioned in regards to Kevin? esp the one time I guess you guys were on ecstacy and you had an epiphany or something...?
[John_e] OK, blah
[John_e] on Ecstacy, with Kevin
[John_e] hopefully you know how you feel on Ecstacy
[John_e] it was the first time that I realized that I was in love with Kevin
[John_e] and I told him that night
[DC] whoa
[John_e] it was actually the first time that I actually "loved" anyone
[ded1156] I dont remember that chapter
[John_e] it wasn't a chapter
[blah] it wasn't in the story
[John_e] it was in the synopsis
[John_e] maybe a chat
[John_e] gave some future details
[kip] oh i see

[blah] and how did Kevin respond?
[John_e] "I love you too"
[John_e] but not like for real
[John_e] and I said no, "I really love you"
[John_e] he mostly shrugged it off
[blah] so it wasn't reciprocated?
[John_e] he was not rolling
[John_e] this is first semester sophomore year, for a time line

[Bill_P] It appeared to me Kevin only got involved when "he wanted" and only for "his sexual satisfactions" Right John???
[John_e] its more complicated than that, Bill
[John_e] I think he did love me, but just couldn't fess up to it

[blah] so did this freak him out? or was he just unaffected by what you said?
[John_e] yeah, partly, but wasn't the loving kind, if you know what I mean
[John_e] just the way he is. and trust, me neither was I. I didn't want a relationship either, it was just the feeling of I love this guy, very much, like no one else
[John_e] and it took ecstasy for me to allow myself to understand that

[blah] John, were you in love w/anyone else in college besides Kevin?
[John_e] yes, I was, blah
[John_e] different loves, but yes.
[John_e] I loved Adam
[John_e] I loved Matt
[John_e] and a yet to be introduced character
[Bill_P] oooo the plot thickens! :u
[John_e] lol, Bill
[John_e] there are many characters to be introduced
[John_e] remember, its only my freshman year

[blah] John, so besides Kevin and Adam, were those the only characters in the story you had sexual relations with?
[John_e] depends on you definition of relations, blah
[John_e] I had sex with Adam one night only
[John_e] spring break sophomore year
[John_e] no, it wasn't spring break
[John_e] it was a couple of weeks b4 spring break
[John_e] but we were in Florida
[John_e] Daytona
[Bill_P] Yeah that's when you kidnapped Adam!
[John_e] yes, the kidnapping Adam story

[bath34] what is all this about an Adam story?
[topcat_msu] after john stopped writing last may, he wrote a few short synopsis of some of the story he hadn't told yet and posted it in an online group
[topcat_msu] i think there were three of them, one of which detailed a trip he and adam took to florida together
[John_e] the synopsis doesn't go far enough
[John_e] I wrote about Kevin messing with other people
[John_e] and me cathing him
[John_e] people meaning dudes
[bath34] with who?
[John_e] not important
[bath34] k
[John_e] and many of you thought that was the big "drama"
[John_e] it wasn't
[John_e] it hurt me though
[John_e] cause I thought that it was something special between us
[John_e] but I was wrong
[John_e] but I got over that
[bath34] good for you.

[blah] Who else did you fool around with?
[John_e] I physically messed around with Matt once
[John_e] but we did not fuck
[John_e] and Matt was at woodstock 99
[blah] Did it change your relationship w/matt (as friends)?
[John_e] no, Matt and I are still best friends
[John_e] we left it at woodstock, never discussed

[Bill_P] CJ as well??
[John_e] I did have a summer fling with CJ
[blah] holy shit!
[DC] big dicked CJ?
[kip] oh wow
[John_e] I have a good part of CJ written
[bath34] what does "fling" mean?
[blah] so much left... god damn you for stopping this story!! (kidding) :)
[John_e] summer before my Jr year
[John_e] CJ was supposed to go home
[John_e] I stayed up at the House
[John_e] CJs internship fell through
[John_e] so he stayed at the House but had no room
[John_e] he stayed with me
[John_e] for the summer
[John_e] he found a gay porn that I had
[John_e] he said it was in the VCR
[John_e] but I was pretty damn protective with that tape
[John_e] I think he was snooping
[John_e] so I had to deal with that...and a couple of drunk nights later
[John_e] we were in bed together
[John_e] but I really didn't want to, this was after the Adam and me thing turned bad and I didn't want that to happen with CJ

[John_e] this is a little embarrassing, talking to you live like this
[kip] well we want you to be comfortable John.
[Bill_P] Johnny... You are amongst friends here... Please..

[blah] what did you and CJ do? how did he handle it, after?
[John_e] first few times I just sucked CJ off
[John_e] the he started jerking nme off
[blah] oh, it was more than once w/CJ?
[bath34] fling, remember!!
[John_e] and evetually we fucked a few times
[DC] daaaaaaaaaamn, boy
[Bill_P] WOW my hat is off to you Johnny.
[bath34] did he bottom for you?
[John_e] yeah, the first time was rough, trust me
[blah] did he kiss, as well?
[DC] i can imagine (from the way you've described CJ's equipment)
[John_e] no kissing at first, but eventually he did
[John_e] but just in the heat of the moment
[John_e] we never kissed when we weren't drunk and in the heat of it all

[blah] were you able to maintain the friendship w/CJ after this summer?
[John_e] yeah, CJ was very cool about it

[steal] Can you tell us more about the thing with Adam?
[John_e] Adam is a very complicated person
[John_e] I'd say Adam is 80% straight
[John_e] the remaining 20% haunts him
[John_e] he was ready to graduate
[John_e] ready to go into the State Trooper academy
[John_e] ready to marry
[John_e] I think if I met Adam as a freshman, both of us freshman
[John_e] his life would be a lot different
[John_e] but you can't think that way, cause there had to be a "Kevin" in the mix
[John_e] so life is what it is

[DC] well . . . . I hate to denigrate Kevin . . . . . because, he's an intelligent guy
[DC] but if he's intelligent and not a complete bastard, didn't he realize what such a powerful sexual affect, being your first, was likely to happen? I mean, you guys were friends, too?
[John_e] Kevin is many people at one time
[John_e] concerned about himself only, really
[John_e] on the outside
[John_e] but he has this way of making you feel so special, even when he's shitting on you
[John_e] so I catch Kevin with another dude
[John_e] we get over it, he messes around, so I mess around with a few guys on campus
[John_e] this is the end of soph year
[John_e] but Kevin and I still get together
[John_e] first semester Jr year I am pledge master
[John_e] loved being pledge master
[John_e] I was evil
[John_e] but that's not the story
[EroticDreams] lol
[van_sama] lol
[John_e] early second semester
[Bill_P] I doubt that was true John.
[John_e] you have no idea till you are pledgemaster!
[John_e] the spirit takes over you
[John_e] and bam, you are mean as shit
[John_e] trust me, I was the baddest PM that frat ever saw, I'm known for it and surprised everyone

[John_e] so early Jr year
[John_e] at a party
[John_e] a newly initiated guy named Brian
[John_e] says he needs to talk to me
[John_e] I knew him since a freshman
[John_e] but he didn't pledge till he was a soph
[John_e] I rushed him hard
[John_e] but he wanted to wait
[John_e] but we stayed in touch
[John_e] then he pledged under me
[John_e] at the party he says hes got to talk to me about something
[John_e] I kind of blow him off cause I'm drunk and horny
[John_e] he says its really important
[John_e] so being the "dad" pledge master I say OK, I'll drive him home later
[John_e] later,on the drive he's all nervous
[John_e] I ask whats up
[John_e] he's stammering
[topcat_msu] was he drunk too?
[John_e] dodging
[John_e] yes, drunk too
[John_e] I really have no idea why
[John_e] and then he says.."I'm..."
[John_e] and in a split second I knew
[John_e] what he was going to say
[bath34] in love with you?
[John_e] No, he's gay
[bath34] :)
[kip] oh ...
[John_e] sad to say, I kind of freaked out
[John_e] I wanted to know why he was telling me
[John_e] did he know?
[John_e] and I asked him
[John_e] "Why you telling me and not your big?"
[John_e] he said he felt closer to me
[DC] naw, John . . . he knows something else . . . . .from Kevin?
[John_e] but I was cool
[John_e] no, he didn't know
[John_e] he didn't hit on me
[DC] wow
[John_e] he was just telling me
[John_e] he started crying
[John_e] it was sad
[topcat_msu] cuz he had no clue about u?
[John_e] I didn't tell him about me at first
[John_e] no clue

[John_e] I was the pledgemaster
[John_e] I was still fucking girls
[John_e] besides Adam, Kevin and CJ, no one else knew
[John_e] I thought it best he not tell everyone
[John_e] being so new in the fraternity
[John_e] he might not go over so well
[John_e] he agreed
[John_e] we stayed up all night talking about it
[John_e] at this point in my life, I was still timid about my "bi-sexuality"\
[John_e] I didn't hit on guys
[John_e] but I took it on occasions if it came my way
[John_e] Brian was pretty hot
[John_e] looks like that guy from Party of 5
[DC] jeez, Scott Wolff?
[John_e] yeah
[van_sama] woof
[John_e] must confess thats why I rushed him so hard
[jimmyz] lol
[DC] sorry but Scott Wolff would make a few str8 guys wonder . . .
[John_e] so anyway
[John_e] knowing what I know
[John_e] I know I got to get me some of that
[topcat_msu] lol
[DC] lol
[John_e] but didn't have the balls
[John_e] so we were hanging out one night
[John_e] after I party I went back to his place
[John_e] I pretended to be wasted
[John_e] and passed out though not really
[John_e] see if he would pull on me what I did to Adam
[John_e] and he did
[bath34] was he still a pledge?
[John_e] no, he was in,. this is second semester
[John_e] so he started touching me and shit
[John_e] I pretended to wake up
[John_e] and in my "drunk state" we fooled around
[John_e] the next day I came clean
[John_e] not about specifics, just that I had been with a few guys before
[John_e] so we started messing around regularly
[John_e] I pushed Kevin to the side
[John_e] need to step back again
[van_sama] oooh...i bet he took that well...
[John_e] end of soph year I took this girl that was totally into me
[John_e] to my formal
[John_e] don't burn psycho chicks
[John_e] we fucked, she wanted more, I didn't
[John_e] wasn't good
[John_e] back to Brian
[John_e] one night we are messing around in his room
[John_e] I assume the door is locked
[John_e] right in the midst of fucking
[John_e] walks in Ms. Formal
[DC] ooooh shit
[Bill_P] OH Shit dude...
[van_sama] oh damn
[John_e] her face drops
[Bill_P] Whoa... caught in the act..
[John_e] and she walks out
[John_e] I yell at Brian, you don't lock the door?
[John_e] and jumped up, towel around waist and run after her
[bath34] did she out you?
[John_e] typical story, this is my first time
[John_e] don't tell anyone
[John_e] begging and pleading
[John_e] she says she won't
[John_e] but this is a scorn woman
[John_e] so things are cool for a couple of days
[John_e] I tell Brian no more
[John_e] too close
[John_e] paranoid at first, but after the second day, no rumor, all is cool
[John_e] NOT
[DC] uh oh
[John_e] like the next day, people are looking at me weird
[John_e] whispering
[John_e] the entire greek community knows
[bath34] omg
[jimmyz] damn
[DC] oh man
[John_e] I should nention that I am VP
[Bill_P] Damn John.
[John_e] we also got our charter back
[van_sama] daaaamn
[John_e] and I am the Secretary of the IFC
[Bill_P] Holy Fuck!
[John_e] so I am known
[John_e] it spread like wild fire
[DC] damn
[John_e] I walk to me group in the Student Center and everyone is weird
[John_e] its Matt that takes me away and says do I know whats going on?
[John_e] and I knew
[John_e] I thought I was going to puke right there
[John_e] to cut to the chase
[John_e] I didn't admit anything
[John_e] bitch was friends with Brian
[John_e] and she didn't see him
[John_e] just me and some guy

[ded1156] So Brian set this up?
[John_e] no, he had nothing to do with it
[DC] had you and Matt fooled around, any, at that point?
[John_e] no, this was b4 matt and I

[John_e] so I lock myself in my room in the house for about a week
[John_e] I drank so much
[John_e] surprised I'm not dead
[John_e] I cried a week
[John_e] people would knock on the door and I would say go away
[John_e] my greatest fear was people knowing
[John_e] and now everyone knew
[John_e] I thought about suicide
[jimmyz] wow
[John_e] thought about just leaving
[Bill_P] WOW...
[John_e] never letting my parents or anyone know where I was

[John_e] first day I'm in my room, about half way through a bottle of Vodka
[John_e] I left Kevin a message
[John_e] he come by later
[John_e] I'm so glad to see him
[John_e] I'm crying my eyes out
[John_e] and says to me
[John_e] "You better not tell anyone about us"
[DC] ohhh shit
[DC] that's it? that's what he said?
[bath34] figures
[John_e] not good
[John_e] he was no help
[kip] aww gosh
[John_e] so I'm alone
[John_e] or so I think
[John_e] Adam is graduated and we don't really talk anymore
[John_e] Matt wants to come in, but I won't let him
[John_e] I'm too embarassed
[John_e] Brian says he will tell everyione that it is him
[John_e] I told him no
[John_e] don't, no need to
[John_e] so about a week goes by
[John_e] rumors flying everywhere
[John_e] its a Sunday
[John_e] Matt breaks my door down
[DC] good for him
[John_e] he says that the meeting tonight is about me
[John_e] what they are going to do
[John_e] I need to say something
[John_e] I tell Matt that I am leaving school
[John_e] and Matt tells me that I can't leave
[John_e] that I am the heart and the soul of the Fraternity
[DC] good man
[kip] very Good!
[John_e] and that it doesn't matter
[John_e] its me
[John_e] and everyone will support me, true or not true
[John_e] tears from my eyes right now
[ded1156] Great Friend
[John_e] whew
[John_e] OK

[John_e] so I still don't have the strength at first
[John_e] they go to the meeting
[John_e] I have U2 on
[John_e] and a song comes on
[John_e] Bad
[John_e] if you don't knmow it
[John_e] awesome song
[John_e] Talks about "I'm not sleeping"
[John_e] meaning I am alive
[Bill_P] What Song?
[John_e] Bad by U2
[John_e] I played it again
[blah] "if i could, yes i would, let it go" that song
[John_e] and again
[John_e] and again
[John_e] and it made me mad and burn inside
[John_e] so I got dressed and went to the meeting on campus
[John_e] I walked into the meeting
[John_e] place went quiet
[John_e] 100 guys in there
[John_e] and I admitted it
[DC] wow
[kip] oh wow
[bath34] amazing courage at your age
[John_e] I told everyone I was gay
[John_e] and though I wasn't certain that I was gay
[John_e] in my mind, at that moment I was
[kip] that was really brave
[van_sama] very
[John_e] I gotta tell you
[EroticDreams] yeah really.. telling 100 guys at once wow
[John_e] it was rough
[John_e] but everyone supported me
[John_e] not everyone
[John_e] but most
[Love] thats great...
[John_e] now the other greeks
[John_e] and the girls
[John_e] thats a differnt story
[John_e] I was gay to everyone
[John_e] I started going to class again
[John_e] it was rough
[John_e] the IFC meeting
[John_e] lol
[John_e] funny
[John_e] I knew I was really out when I had in my mailbox
[John_e] a letter from out Gay Group
[John_e] on campus
[John_e] asking me to be their president
[Bill_P] Wow!!
[bath34] not only am I a member, but the president!
[John_e] lol
[John_e] they have a stupid acronym name
[John_e] but I saw it right away and was like, "what the fuck?"
[John_e] so anyway
[John_e] let me finish this real quickly
[John_e] Kevin did not out me
[John_e] but I outed Kevin
[John_e] and it was an accident
[tyrone_at] omg
[John_e] a drunk night
[John_e] I was so angry
[John_e] and I was telling Matt the whole story
[John_e] and someone over-heard
[DC] shit, JW . . . you're the unluckiest guy around . .
[John_e] honestly, Matt would not have told anyone
[John_e] I just said it a bit too loud
[John_e] and for Kevin, well
[John_e] they weren't as accepting
[John_e] he wasn't shunned
[John_e] but his "generation" was mostly graduated
[John_e] a lot of people didn't like him from the start
[John_e] and when people found out the whole story
[John_e] and that he let me go about the whole thing alone
[John_e] that didn't go over well, Brotherly love, Depend on a Brother and all
[John_e] so Kevin and I beat the shit out of each other
[John_e] a few times
[John_e] I have a big scar on my forehead from him
[John_e] it was rough
[John_e] tough on our Fraternity because we were constantly fighting or not talking
[John_e] and it was a love hate relationship
[John_e] and trust me, we fucked, hard, a couple of more times
[John_e] but after our last brawl, we didn't speak for about three years
[John_e] a couple of years ago, "we made" up
[John_e] I haven't seen him in about a year
[John_e] but we were cordial when we saw each other
[DC] wait, you still had episodes where you guys had intense sex, during all these ups and downs?
[John_e] no, no sex
[John_e] but he looked good

[John_e] He lives in Manhattan
[John_e] I hear he has a BF now
[Bill_P] KEWL
[DC] is he still attracted to women, at all?
[John_e] as far as I know DC, no

[John_e] last time I was with Kevin, I introduced him to my BF
[John_e] it was weird
[John_e] really weird
[John_e] I never told my BF all this
[DC] yeah, JW, I can imagine
[John_e] and he had no idea who I was introducing him too
[DC] very surreal
[DC] wow
[kip] Oh gosh, yeah would be weird
[John_e] it was
[John_e] but I'm not with that BF anymore

[theschnauzers] john did you and adam ever make up or is that a lost friendship?
[John_e] Adam and I...
[John_e] I was at Adam's wedding
[John_e] I was surprised that I was invited
[John_e] Adam never hated me
[John_e] we talked about it
[John_e] right after
[John_e] he had his own issues
[John_e] and it became weird
[John_e] too weird for me
[John_e] and I took all the blame at first
[John_e] and then I was like
[John_e] I can't deal with it
[John_e] let it go
[John_e] and we just drifted apart
[John_e] he rarely came back after he graduated
[John_e] next generation came up in the frat
[John_e] I was the the new "Adam"
[John_e] the top dog
[John_e] and the mind quickly forgets
[John_e] or chooses to forget
[Bill_P] Well you had a good teacher "BIG" wise!
[John_e] lol
[John_e] I see Adam a couple of times a year
[John_e] he has two kids
[John_e] still married
[John_e] lives at the Jersey shore where he's a cop
[John_e] but I don't talk to him on the phone or anything

[John_e] LOL, my sister got pulled over by him
[John_e] on her way to AC
[John_e] and he was Like, ""Walsh", John "Walsh's" sister?"
[kip] lol
[John_e] and she said yes and he let her go no ticket
[John_e] said to say hello
[Cadoimond] I take it John_e lives in Jersey?
[John_e] I live in Jersey now, yes

[John_e] wow, that was a little sad for me
[John_e] some tears as I typed
[van_sama] thanks for sharing that with us
[John_e] but feeling good that it is all out there
[DC] yeah, man . . . . we understand
[John_e] and I'd like to add
[John_e] that as being an "out" guy on campus, my Sr year my frat voted me President
[DC] sweet
[kip] Oh wow Cool!
[John_e] says alot about me and them

[bh] So John, the story's done. Bring us up to date. A new BF???
[John_e] no, no BF
[John_e] I was dating a guy recently for a couple of weeks, but it ended
[John_e] I still have serious sexual preference problems
[John_e] I feel trapped in my past
[John_e] and I feel like I could start dating girls maybe again
[John_e] but people would go crazy
[John_e] and I don't know and don't want to hurt anyone
[John_e] allow a girl to fall in love with me and then decide, nah, I actually do like guys
[John_e] I made my bed
[John_e] I need to sleep in it
[John_e] I am where I am
[John_e] I'm not unhappy
[John_e] I wonder
[John_e] but I'll stay gay

[daz3d] what if you allow a guy to fall in love with you and decide, nah, i actually like girls?
[John_e] well thats the problem
[John_e] I think I love guys
[John_e] then I get all weirded out in guy relationships and bail
[John_e] trust me, no one here wants a relationship with me

[John_e] its not just the "girls" that stop me
[John_e] its me too
[John_e] I went through so much confusion
[John_e] and I don't want to go through it again
[John_e] and I feel like I could like girls, but I don't know, some girls still turn me on, but I don't want the head games with myself again, so I'll just stay where I am

[steal] what about Adam and Andy?
[John_e] Adam and Andy?
[John_e] Oh, Adam and Andy
[John_e] yes yes
[John_e] Adam and Andy were in the tent together when they pledged
[John_e] yes, they fooled around
[DC] wow
[DC] how'd you find out?
[John_e] Adam told me that
[John_e] we were stoned to the beach when he told me
[John_e] thats when he told me that I told him I was hooking up with Kevin when we went canoeing
[John_e] this was summer betw Frsh and Soph year
[DC] right, you didn't totally remember telling him that
[John_e] I actually don't remember telling him at all
[John_e] its his memory that is my memory
[DC] heh heh
[kip] oh hehe
[John_e] actually, when I told Adam about Kevin, I was on shrooms

[bath34] do you still use a lot of drugs/alcohol John?
[John_e] no, I social drink
[John_e] smoke a joint maybe once a month
[John_e] and that's it
[John_e] though I was doing nitrus balloons at the last DMB concert

[John_e] you guys made me laugh...
[John_e] after the Spring Break chapter
[John_e] I got a lot of e-mails about how much I dranks and did drugs
[John_e] and how bad it was for me
[John_e] and I was like, you guys have no idea, I'm just getting started

[DC] I can't remember if you had any mood enhancers when you and Adam hooked up
[John_e] drunk, DC
[DC] so, he had an out?
[John_e] no, he didn't
[John_e] it was just he and I, and we knew
[John_e] we had a canoe trip the weekend afer finals, second semester, every year, as a send off to the Seniors. We camped out the night
[John_e] that Sunday was always Mothers Day, and trust me, my mom was never pleased about it
[John_e] I'd be in bed all day
[DC] heh heh, can imagine

[Bill_P] BTW did you fair well in your studies there at school John?
[John_e] lol
[John_e] no, Bill
[John_e] I graduated
[John_e] 5 year program
[John_e] never went to class
[John_e] I sold most of my books back not even opened
[John_e] I had the experience of life, the best experience of all

[steal] Why did you stop writing FM?
[John_e] I stopped for a few reasons:
[John_e] 1) It was taking over my life
[John_e] 2) Being auto-biographical, my mind was going places it hasn't visited in awhile, and it was emotionally stressing
[John_e] 3) Needed to be more ahead looking than back looking
[John_e] and lastly, 4) New job and started dating someone new, so I needed to concentrate on that

[kip] do you hope to continue at some point in future ?
[kip] cause you have a dedicated base of fans :)
[John_e] I have no intent to continue the story at this time
[kip] awww :(

[John_e] I have another reason for stopping, if I could add...
[John_e] 5) its daunting. I have a lot to tell, it gets bad, and I'm afraid of the effort and time its going to take to tell
[John_e] so I'm taking the easy way out and stopping :)

[hal] Dude, what do you mean the Fraternity Memoirs is done? The last chapter ends with "to be continued...."
[John_e] its done my man
[John_e] its like a weight off my shoulders
[John_e] it was a lot of pressure
[John_e] having all you fuckers out there waiting
[kip] LOL
[bath34] lol
[John_e] and wanting
[kip] well we really appreciate your efforts
[daz3d] you were brilliant
[kip] it brought a lot of feelings back from my own college experience....
[topcat_msu] ditto kip
[van_sama] i think it came out better that way, stroke stories are a dime a dozen
[van_sama] true stories are a a treasure
[DC] well, the sex is great . . . . but the attraction, for most people, was the overall story . . . and the character development . . . . (then the sex was better)

[hal] But you and Kevin haven't even fucked in the story, right? Wasn't it all building up to that?
[John_e] I don't know, Hal, for you, it might have been about getting to me and Kevin fucking. For me, it was getting to the outed part
[John_e] and when I looked at how far and how much I had to tell to get there
[John_e] it was just too much to do
[John_e] and there is so much I haven't told here
[John_e] like getting fucked the first time
[John_e] and the knocks on my door, after I was outed, from brothers
[John_e] suddenly curious
[John_e] and I'd have to say no

[Bill_P] Oh Really??? What did them frat bros want to know john??
[John_e] they wanted a BJ
[Bill_P] Oh... Just curious John. It sounds like they were lined up in the hall. :)
[John_e] no, not like that
[John_e] but people would come in
[John_e] sit down
[John_e] late at night
[John_e] start talking BS
[John_e] no need for then to be in my room that late
[John_e] and I knew what it was about
[John_e] waiting for me to suggest maybe
[John_e] and it wasn't everyone
[John_e] and generally it was a flat no
[John_e] not to say that I didn't maybe take a couple of guys up ;)

[bath34] do you mind saying how you lost your viginity?
[John_e] I got fucked the first time, for real, 1st semester soph year
[John_e] I say first time because I tried once that summer, but it just didn't work
[John_e] Kevin was the first to fuck me
[John_e] But I fucked Bobby before I got fucked
[bath34] who's Bobby?
[bath34] Oh that home guy
[John_e] Yeah, the guy from the club

[John_e] Kevin "got" me lots.
[John_e] and the sad thing
[John_e] after all that heppened
[John_e] when I jerk off
[John_e] I think of Kevin
[John_e] ;(
[DC] damn
[John_e] just the sex
[John_e] not the emotions

[topcat_msu] john, did anyone else come out on their own after you were outed, and besides kevin's outing? what about brian?
[John_e] Yes, Brian did come out
[John_e] after me but b4 Kevin
[topcat_msu] was he received well?
[John_e] and we had one other guy pledge and come out later, when I was a senior
[daz3d] did he tell people it was him who was with you
[John_e] people put 2 and 2 together about Brian and I
[John_e] as after I admitted it, they remembered that the weeks b4 I was suddenly hanging out with Brian A LOT

[steal] john can you tell us about any of your littles and did you have encounter with them?
[John_e] I had a little
[John_e] and I took him way too early
[John_e] I was only a second semester sophomore
[John_e] this guy was so hot
[John_e] I just had to have him as my liitle
[John_e] but I had no business taking a little that young
[John_e] but I did
[John_e] and was not the greatest of bigs
[John_e] too concerned with partying
[John_e] but nothing ever happened between us sexually

[topcat_msu] john, do the characters in the story know of the story? especially kevin..?
[John_e] No one know about the story as it is
[John_e] that it is here for you all to read
[John_e] or that it is sexual
[John_e] but I have called a few of the guys to check up on my facts
[John_e] how did this happen again?
[kip] lol
[John_e] and I told them that I was writing a memoirs about pledging
[John_e] but just for me

[ded1156] Would you consider telling them about the story?
[John_e] no, I don't think I'll ever tell anyone
[John_e] everyone knows their piece
[John_e] but not others
[John_e] no one knows about Adam and I
[John_e] so it wouldn't be fair to Adam
[John_e] no one knows about Matt
[John_e] so it wouldn't be cool

[ben_hasnen69] i'm sure you have gone over this already, but could you describe briefly where each of the characters are now (incl u) with out giving away too much obviously!
[John_e] CJ is a school teacher
[John_e] dating, but not married
[John_e] Evan is also a school teacher
[John_e] got married last August
[John_e] awesome wedding
[John_e] we are still best friends Evan and I, besides Matt
[John_e] Matt is a trader
[John_e] married
[John_e] hate his wife
[John_e] lol
[ded1156] lol
[van_sama] lol
[John_e] not really
[John_e] I tease her all the time though
[John_e] they are trying hard to have a kid
[John_e] but not successful yet
[John_e] as he says, his boys don't swim

[daz3d] she knows about matt and you?
[John_e] no, she doesn't know
[John_e] I just tease her that I'm in love with her husband
[kip] lol
[John_e] which I'm not

[hal] Have you been with any current frat boys lately?
[John_e] well, after graduating
[John_e] I worked in a restaurant for like 6 months
[John_e] kind of lost what to do with a Poli Sci major
[John_e] continued my substance abuse
[John_e] became a "club Kid"
[John_e] to a certain extent
[John_e] more one night stands than you can imagine

[Rhyolite] John: was there anything specific that turned you away from drugs and
"club kid" life?
[John_e] reality, Rhyo
[John_e] responsibilty
[Bill_P] I guess, Money, Health and your Job Eh??
[John_e] pretty much

[John_e] my mom forced me to take the job with my uncle and I was never a failure, so I couldn't get fired, I just needed someone to get me out of the college mode and into the real life
[John_e] sobered up quickly
[John_e] moved up in the company
[John_e] was offered a management position in Atlanta
[John_e] took it
[John_e] lived down there a couple of years to prove myself
[John_e] got moved back here a year ago
[John_e] better job
[John_e] I work in telecom
[John_e] finance in telecom
[John_e] manage a few states
[John_e] do pretty good

[ded1156] How old are you now?
[John_e] 30

[John_e] relationship wise
[John_e] never too successful
[John_e] had one three year realtionship that broke off the first time I quit the story
[John_e] and been single since
[John_e] enjoying it
[John_e] slowly getting back to the old JW and starting to date again
[John_e] no one night stands, not anymore
[Bill_P] Good for you John.
[John_e] I never really dated
[John_e] like in college
[John_e] so I'm looking forward to just dating and being relaxed with who I am

[John_e] anyone interested in hearing a story I am toying with?
[ded1156] YES
[John_e] there would be some sex
[John_e] but not really graphical details
[John_e] not for Nifty
[John_e] this may be my first attempt at a novel
[kip] oh cool
[John_e] still formulating
[John_e] but generally
[John_e] a guy in college
[John_e] maybe a jock
[John_e] maybe frat
[John_e] maybe not
[John_e] not sure
[John_e] but he meets the love of his life at school
[John_e] was never out
[John_e] but thought he may be gay
[John_e] falls in love with this guy
[John_e] and comes out to his family
[John_e] family does not take it well
[John_e] and why I am thinking he is some kind of a jock
[John_e] as it has huge ramifications
[John_e] but in college
[John_e] college jock
[John_e] so this guy gets in a bad accident
[John_e] maybe a car
[John_e] in this accuident
[John_e] he almost dies
[John_e] but makes it out
[John_e] but has lost all his memory
[John_e] and he forgets that he is gay
[John_e] and he has the BF
[John_e] but he doesn't believe it
[John_e] and his family is not sure what to do
[John_e] maybe not tell him?
[John_e] if he doesn't remember
[John_e] maybe he never will
[John_e] I'm playing with the gay because of genes vs environment
[gaz] interesting !
[John_e] kind of a reversal coming out
[John_e] whenever his friends and shit tell him he is gay, but he doesn't want to be anymore
[John_e] no, not lite reading
[John_e] I have to do a lot of research
[John_e] but I think it could be awesome
[John_e] and I'm not sure how I want to end it
[John_e] stay straight or fall back in love with his BF
[daz3d] it's an awesome idea
[steal] Sounds like you will never stop writing.

[John_e] as far as continuing FM goes, never say never
[John_e] I may get back to it
[John_e] right now, no
[John_e] but maybe someday

[Bill_P] Johnny... I want to thank you for your time and your active participation to the questions.
[John_e] you're welcome
[kip] John this has been a wonderful evening discussing a truely remarkable story
[John_e] thanks Kip
[John_e] and I now have the award for the most users?
[kip] well this is a major "Classic" on Nifty!
[kip] LOL
[John_e] classic, huh? makes me feel old, lol
* Kip hands John W an certificate of award for most attendees!
[ded1156] do you have an acceptance speach
[John_e] yes, I do have an acceptance speech...
[John_e] "Thank you and blow me!"
[kip] LOL
[jamuspsu2000] is that an invitiation? :-P
[ded1156] LOL it would be my pleasure
* Kip gets down on knees
[EroticDreams] lol
[EroticDreams] KIP! *OMG*
* EroticDreams laughs
[John_e] you may need some knee pads, Kip, you'll be down there awhile :p
[kip] definitely would make my day, lol

[jamuspsu2000] FM is actually the only serial that i've ever really read.
[John_e] lol, some guy told me he read all 20 something chs in one sitting
[John_e] thats crazy
[jamuspsu2000] it's a long long story. i did that one night when i was supposed to be writing a paper.
[John_e] read a whole story in one sitting, jamus? which one?
[jamuspsu2000] i read FM in one sitting, i mean.
[jamuspsu2000] while i was supposed to be writing a paper.
[John_e] damn, your ass must have been killing you
[jamuspsu2000] not, maybe, the best use of my time, but that's kinda what college is about.
[John_e] how long did it take you?
[jamuspsu2000] not really sure.... cuz i was writing the paper before and then i finished it after. it was like a year and a half ago.
[jamuspsu2000] but i was exhausted. went to class, handed in the paper, and left.
[John_e] lol
[John_e] hope you papers weren't sticky when you handed it to the prof
[jamuspsu2000] haha. nope. it wasn't ever as much of a j/o story to me as it was a fraternity memoir.... i was an out fraternity president too.

[ben_hasnen69] Hey John.. just wanted to say that i am a huge fan...thanks for all your writing! I don't know how many times i have read each chapter but yea..best of luck to u in the future
[John_e] Thanks Ben
[John_e] that means a lot to me
[John_e] you guys have been awesome
[John_e] this journey has been much more than I ever anticpated
[bath34] No John YOU'RE Awesome!!!!
[John_e] the heart pouring e-mails I received, a couple of people on the verge of suicide b4 finding my story, you'll never know what that means to me
[kip] oh wow that is great to have touched so many lives
[John_e] that I could help with what was just meant to be a quick spank story b4 I actually started putting my words down
[kip] well you have created a "Nifty Classic"

[John_e] all right guys. thanks for the forum
[John_e] stay well and keep on writing or reading
[jamuspsu2000] Thank you, John! You stay well also.
[Todd] John_e, thanks so muchy again :)
[Todd] my best wishes for you :)
[ded1156] John, thanks again for tonight. I hope someday you pick back up on FM
[John_e] thanks
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